MOTTO
Nothing in life is certain except death, taxes and the second law of thermodynamics. (Seth Lloyd)
The paradox that immediately bothers everyone who learns about the second law is this: If systems tend to become more disordered, why, then, do we see so much order around us? ...It seems to conflict with our "creation myth": In the beginning, there was a big bang. ...no one is saying that the second law of thermodynamics is wrong, just that there is a contrapuntal process organizing things at a higher level.
(J. Doyne Farmer),
It’s the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Sooner or later everything turns to shit. (Woody Allen)
LENR THINKER
I have used quotations about thermodynamics because I have seen the laws of thermodynamics so many times applied bureaucratically, with an apocalyptic flavor
and many times misapplied. A recent example is expert Rick Smith using them in order to demonstrate that the 1MW plant of Andrea Rossi has circulated water ni=ot steam and the steam - iif formed could not be superheated- so he ignored one critical detail - that the fluid had a temperature of 103-104 C at atmospheric pressure, has not studied/understood the structure and functionality of the Hot Cats and on this basis has claimed that the data of the Penon Report must be fake. He will get the proper answer in Court- where the real battles take place.
A few days ago I have recommended you the following paper
Battle between quantum and thermodynamic laws heats up
Physicists try to rebuild the laws of heat and energy for processes at a quantum scale.
http://www.nature.com/news/battle-between-quantum-and-thermodynamic-laws-heats-up-1.21720
LENR MONITOR
1) From the Miami Court Pacermonitor re the Rossi vs Darden litigation
2) From Gregory Goble
This comment is just my impression based on reading much of the commentary at ecatworld that you linked to re the steam handling systems built for the 1MW test plant.
Engineer48 makes a lot of *very convincing* points about the flow pipes and IMHO endorses your constant criticism of the attacks on the system about half filled pipes particular from Jed Rothwell who it now appears really did not understand what he was talking about and that seems ok allowing that he had no expertise in this area but Jed should not have gone public (ballistic) with his hollow arguments re the water flow in the pipes, in the way he did. He has lost all credibility.
Below are a summary of points made by Engineer48 that to me are convincing ...
***************************************************************
Engineer48 Mats Lewan
Hi Mats,
I do appreciate the info Smith has provided, especially the photos of the inside of the JM Black Box that shows the 92,670 L/Day capacity primary Condensate flow pump, the images of the condensate pipe to the ECat, showing the Flow Meter and the statement that the internal condensate holding tank is vented to atmo via a condensate vent pipe, which I was able to find and identify.
What we now know is:
1) There is more than ample capacity to pump 32,000 L/Day of condensate.
2) There is an unconventional design steam trap on the OUTLET of the heat exchanger inside the JM Black Box.
3) There is a vent pipe on the condensate system inside the ECat that will maintain a 2-3m head of water pressure at the bottom of the condensate tank & Flow Meter.
4) That vent pipe and the 2-3m head of water it generates will ensure the Flow Meter is always filled with fluid.
5) This kills a lot of past speculation about partly filled flow meter and there not being enough total pump capacity to supply the stated 32,000 L/Day.
6) There is an unconventional steam trap and steam recovery system on the OUTLET of the heat exchanger inside the JM Black Box.
7) There are 4 pipes running up the wall from the JM Black Box and across the ceiling. Where they go is uncertain but they do support there was another heat exchanger in the upper story of the warehouse.
Overall Smith has done a good job for Rossi.
Nothing in life is certain except death, taxes and the second law of thermodynamics. (Seth Lloyd)
The paradox that immediately bothers everyone who learns about the second law is this: If systems tend to become more disordered, why, then, do we see so much order around us? ...It seems to conflict with our "creation myth": In the beginning, there was a big bang. ...no one is saying that the second law of thermodynamics is wrong, just that there is a contrapuntal process organizing things at a higher level.
(J. Doyne Farmer),
It’s the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Sooner or later everything turns to shit. (Woody Allen)
Old Chemists never die: they reach thermodynamic equilibrium (Unknown, but surely chemist and surely dead)
I am old and i am a chemist so I take this as personal!
I am old and i am a chemist so I take this as personal!
LENR THINKER
I have used quotations about thermodynamics because I have seen the laws of thermodynamics so many times applied bureaucratically, with an apocalyptic flavor
and many times misapplied. A recent example is expert Rick Smith using them in order to demonstrate that the 1MW plant of Andrea Rossi has circulated water ni=ot steam and the steam - iif formed could not be superheated- so he ignored one critical detail - that the fluid had a temperature of 103-104 C at atmospheric pressure, has not studied/understood the structure and functionality of the Hot Cats and on this basis has claimed that the data of the Penon Report must be fake. He will get the proper answer in Court- where the real battles take place.
A few days ago I have recommended you the following paper
Battle between quantum and thermodynamic laws heats up
Physicists try to rebuild the laws of heat and energy for processes at a quantum scale.
http://www.nature.com/news/battle-between-quantum-and-thermodynamic-laws-heats-up-1.21720
LENR MONITOR
1) From the Miami Court Pacermonitor re the Rossi vs Darden litigation
| Thursday, April 06, 2017 | ||
| 248 |  respm Reply to Response to Motion Thu 8:35 PM REPLY to Response to Motion re197 MOTION to Exclude The Opinions and Testimony of Dr. K. Wong filed by Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC, Thomas Darden, IPH International B.V., Industrial Heat, LLC, John T. Vaughn.(Lomax, Christopher) | |
| Att: 1 Exhibit 1, | ||
| Att: 2 Exhibit 2, | ||
| Att: 3 Exhibit 3, | ||
| Att: 4 Exhibit 4, | ||
| Att: 5 Exhibit 5, | ||
| Att: 6 Exhibit 6 | ||
| 247 | notice Notice (Other) Thu 5:17 PM NOTICE by Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC, Thomas Darden, IPH International B.V., Industrial Heat, LLC, John T. Vaughn re207 Supplemental MOTION for Summary Judgment [Statement of Material Facts] (Mastrucci, Christina) | |
| Att: 1 Exhibit 22, | ||
| Att: 2 Exhibit 30, | ||
| Att: 3 Exhibit 31, | ||
| Att: 4 Exhibit 32, | ||
| Att: 5 Exhibit 33 | ||
| 246 | order Order on Appeal/Objection of Magistrate Judge Order to District Court Thu 12:42 PM ORDER denying240 Appeal/Objection of Magistrate Judge Order to District Court. Signed by Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga on 4/6/2017. (ps1) | |
2) From Gregory Goble
LENR Energy Lawsuit of the Millennium - How Noble
https://plus.google.com/107190105791959392745/posts/azxzE973PdT
3) Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter nuclear science
https://plus.google.com/107190105791959392745/posts/azxzE973PdT
3) Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter nuclear science
Peter L. Hagelstein* Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA
http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0601.pdf
The absence of energetic particles commensurate with the energy produced in the Fleischmann–Pons experiment hinders our ability to sort out the microscopic physics involved. Models that we have studied for excess heat are based on the fractionation of the large nuclear quantum to a large number of much smaller quanta. These models predict that it should also be possible to up-convert vibrational quanta to produce nuclear excitation. Such a mechanism could produce collimated X-ray and gamma emission. Collimated X-ray emission near 1.5 keV has been reported by Karabut. Other examples of collimated X-ray and gamma emission have been described in the literature.
4) An older patent application by Andrea Rossi
https://www.google.com/patents/US20050028858
Thermoelectric module and generator
US 20050028858 A1
ABSTRACT
The invention relates to a thermoelectric module wherein a metallic conductive plate (1) is coated with a platinum layer (2) and a tellurium (3) layer, or other thermoelectric couples. The utilisation of layers of 1 μm or less reduces the ohmic resistance of the thermoelectric materials and allows the production of flat, cylindrical or otherwise shaped modules.
The absence of energetic particles commensurate with the energy produced in the Fleischmann–Pons experiment hinders our ability to sort out the microscopic physics involved. Models that we have studied for excess heat are based on the fractionation of the large nuclear quantum to a large number of much smaller quanta. These models predict that it should also be possible to up-convert vibrational quanta to produce nuclear excitation. Such a mechanism could produce collimated X-ray and gamma emission. Collimated X-ray emission near 1.5 keV has been reported by Karabut. Other examples of collimated X-ray and gamma emission have been described in the literature.
4) An older patent application by Andrea Rossi
https://www.google.com/patents/US20050028858
Thermoelectric module and generator
US 20050028858 A1
ABSTRACT
The invention relates to a thermoelectric module wherein a metallic conductive plate (1) is coated with a platinum layer (2) and a tellurium (3) layer, or other thermoelectric couples. The utilisation of layers of 1 μm or less reduces the ohmic resistance of the thermoelectric materials and allows the production of flat, cylindrical or otherwise shaped modules.
THE OPINION OF DOUG MARKER
This comment is just my impression based on reading much of the commentary at ecatworld that you linked to re the steam handling systems built for the 1MW test plant.
Engineer48 makes a lot of *very convincing* points about the flow pipes and IMHO endorses your constant criticism of the attacks on the system about half filled pipes particular from Jed Rothwell who it now appears really did not understand what he was talking about and that seems ok allowing that he had no expertise in this area but Jed should not have gone public (ballistic) with his hollow arguments re the water flow in the pipes, in the way he did. He has lost all credibility.
Below are a summary of points made by Engineer48 that to me are convincing ...
***************************************************************
Engineer48 Mats Lewan
Hi Mats,
I do appreciate the info Smith has provided, especially the photos of the inside of the JM Black Box that shows the 92,670 L/Day capacity primary Condensate flow pump, the images of the condensate pipe to the ECat, showing the Flow Meter and the statement that the internal condensate holding tank is vented to atmo via a condensate vent pipe, which I was able to find and identify.
What we now know is:
1) There is more than ample capacity to pump 32,000 L/Day of condensate.
2) There is an unconventional design steam trap on the OUTLET of the heat exchanger inside the JM Black Box.
3) There is a vent pipe on the condensate system inside the ECat that will maintain a 2-3m head of water pressure at the bottom of the condensate tank & Flow Meter.
4) That vent pipe and the 2-3m head of water it generates will ensure the Flow Meter is always filled with fluid.
5) This kills a lot of past speculation about partly filled flow meter and there not being enough total pump capacity to supply the stated 32,000 L/Day.
6) There is an unconventional steam trap and steam recovery system on the OUTLET of the heat exchanger inside the JM Black Box.
7) There are 4 pipes running up the wall from the JM Black Box and across the ceiling. Where they go is uncertain but they do support there was another heat exchanger in the upper story of the warehouse.
Overall Smith has done a good job for Rossi.
and also:
These comments also deserve airing as I agree 100% with Bob Greenyer's thanks to Engineer48.
Bob Greenyer Engineer48
E48
Whilst I do not normally comment on AR/IH epic I must say that your most recent diagram linking to photographic evidence appears to be the most accurate depiction of the operation of the '1MW' unit.
Filling the reactors part way would ensure super heating steam. the position of the pipes all make logical sense.
As far as I can tell, the 'black box' is just a MASSIVE radiator designed to very evenly release the heat which would mean that the thermal sink side would have a VERY long time constant. This would lead to very stable data.
The copper pipes at the bottom I think are some kind of heat pipe arrangement - though this is pure speculation.
What you are presenting is
1. just coherent facts based on photos and logic, regardless of your position
2. refreshingly consistent and is following all the evidence rather than trying to prove a position.
Avatar
Engineer48 Bob Greenyer • 12 hours ago
Hi BG,
Comments appreciated.
Thanks to Smith's new images, the holes in my earlier system schematic has been filled in and I now have a very good understanding of how the system worked from an engineering design standpoint.
My position has always been that which the images show, plus a few hints from Rossi, ie he told me there was another much bigger condensate pump that supplied most of the condensate flow and that the 6 small pumps per Tiger were just topping up pumps to maintain a constant water level inside the Tigers.
What he shared was backed up by the photographic data.
LENR INSPIRATION
1) BOOK about ideas
The Ideas Industry: How Pessimists, Partisans, and Plutocrats Are Transforming the Marketplace of Ideas Daniel W. Drezner Oxford University Press, 2017. 356 pphttp://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6333/35?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2017-04-06&et_rid=33799724&et_cid=1259660
Summary
The Ideas Industry, by Daniel Drezner, is a book about how modern America produces and interacts with the marketplace of ideas. Although ideas are ubiquitous, manifesting in think pieces, TED talks, and all manner of conventional wisdom, we rarely take the time to examine the people and institutions that give rise to them. Because we have paid this important phenomenon little heed, Drezner maintains that we have missed an "industrial revolution in the public sphere." Below the surface of his analysis lie the questions "How did we get here?" and "What did we get wrong?" that so many of us are grappling with these days.
Bob Greenyer Engineer48
E48
Whilst I do not normally comment on AR/IH epic I must say that your most recent diagram linking to photographic evidence appears to be the most accurate depiction of the operation of the '1MW' unit.
Filling the reactors part way would ensure super heating steam. the position of the pipes all make logical sense.
As far as I can tell, the 'black box' is just a MASSIVE radiator designed to very evenly release the heat which would mean that the thermal sink side would have a VERY long time constant. This would lead to very stable data.
The copper pipes at the bottom I think are some kind of heat pipe arrangement - though this is pure speculation.
What you are presenting is
1. just coherent facts based on photos and logic, regardless of your position
2. refreshingly consistent and is following all the evidence rather than trying to prove a position.
Avatar
Engineer48 Bob Greenyer • 12 hours ago
Hi BG,
Comments appreciated.
Thanks to Smith's new images, the holes in my earlier system schematic has been filled in and I now have a very good understanding of how the system worked from an engineering design standpoint.
My position has always been that which the images show, plus a few hints from Rossi, ie he told me there was another much bigger condensate pump that supplied most of the condensate flow and that the 6 small pumps per Tiger were just topping up pumps to maintain a constant water level inside the Tigers.
What he shared was backed up by the photographic data.
LENR INSPIRATION
1) BOOK about ideas
The Ideas Industry: How Pessimists, Partisans, and Plutocrats Are Transforming the Marketplace of Ideas Daniel W. Drezner Oxford University Press, 2017. 356 pphttp://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6333/35?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2017-04-06&et_rid=33799724&et_cid=1259660
Summary
The Ideas Industry, by Daniel Drezner, is a book about how modern America produces and interacts with the marketplace of ideas. Although ideas are ubiquitous, manifesting in think pieces, TED talks, and all manner of conventional wisdom, we rarely take the time to examine the people and institutions that give rise to them. Because we have paid this important phenomenon little heed, Drezner maintains that we have missed an "industrial revolution in the public sphere." Below the surface of his analysis lie the questions "How did we get here?" and "What did we get wrong?" that so many of us are grappling with these days.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170330150733.htm
ReplyDeletePhysicists move closer to listening in on sub-atomic conversation
Through nanoscale monopole magnetism, LENR breaks down protons and neutrons into mesons and pions.
These particles are the mechanism whereby atoms can interact via the storge force. The "sigma" meson is the mechanism where atoms interact with each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_meson
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/280466/what-is-a-sigma-meson
"If I am not mistaken σσ refers to scalar mesons (total spin 0 and even parity JP=0+JP=0+) in general. As @annav pointed out one candidate is f0(500)f0(500). Especially in effective theories of the nuclear force mesons are quite important since there are many models describing the nuclear force with the exchange of those mesons: exchange models (see Pion-exchange model, Yukawa potential,...). How ever I think in a more modern view one uses chiral EFT with multiple pion exchanges to model the nuclear interaction. – M. J. Steil Sep 16 '16 at 14:04"
In Rossi's latest theory paper:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05249.pdf
Rossi et al states that
the σ(sigma) meson (a Scalar or sigma meson) is the particle that carries the strong force interaction between particles.
In reference to the quoted comments of Engineer48, as printed above, where it says;-
ReplyDelete" As far as I can tell, the 'black box' is just a MASSIVE radiator designed to very evenly release the heat which would mean that the thermal sink side would have a VERY long time constant. This would lead to very stable data."
The time constant and the thermal stability of the system would be determined by the thermal mass of the black box. If it was just an empty insulated shipping container then it would have a very low thermal mass and thus a short time constant at the input power level of the supposed 1 megawatt. A large time constant could only be obtained by running the empty box up to very high temperatures, and this could not have been done because water was the heat transfer medium, therefore limited to temperatures around the 100 degrees C mark, unless at high pressure, which it was not.
The description of the large black box clearly states that the box is covered with an insulating layer, including the access door.
Why would a black box which is supposedly designed to dissipate 1 megawatt of heat be covered with a thick insulating layer which would prevent it from dissipating the heat as it was designed to do?
Surely that would have the obvious effect of making the box incapable of dissipating the 1 megawatt.
And, if the system is to remain in thermal equilibrium, the 1 megawatt has to eventually be dissipated into the room it is sitting in, otherwise the internal temperature must continually rises.
Do people realize how much heat that is and how incredibly hot that would make a factory unit of the size we see there?
With an outside temperature of just 15 degrees C, a heater system with an output of just 12 kilowatts will make a house of similar size uncomfortably hot within a few hours if left running at full power. That's just 12 kilowatts. One megawatt is eighty times that.
And that is when the outside temperature is 15 degrees C. What happens when the outside temperature is 30 degrees C and the dissipated heat energy is 1 megawatt? Doral (Miami) is not known for its cool temperatures. Average daytime temps are around 30 degrees C plus.
To try and explain this away with the simple explanation that the heat was dissipated by normal convection through a ceiling vent is laughably inadequate.
I would suggest to stop bothering the argument with discussion of pipe sizes and whether they were half full or completely empty. The whole project fails on the basis of where the supposed 1 megawatt of heat finally went.
If 1 megawatt was generated then it has to go somewhere, and since it has now been revealed that no mysterious product involving an endothermic process was taking place, we are left with the the problem of disposing of the full 1 megawatt of thermal energy in a sealed factory unit.
Previously this point has always been brushed aside with the explanation that the secret customer was using the heat by way of an endothermic manufacturing process. This argument was intrinsically weak at the time, but at least it was a possible explanation. However, as we now know, there was no manufacturing process at all taking place, so now we are back to the original problem. Where did all that heat go?
Even if it was dealt with by a heat exchanger it still has to then be extracted from the building which would requires some serious extraction fans or refrigeration. Specially in Doral.
Perhaps if test was done in the sub zero temperatures of the arctic, that would have made the dissipation of that much heat a little more believable, but a factory unit in Miami Florida? I don't think so.
Solve that problem first and if that can be done in a convincing manner then we can move on to pipe sizes and how full they might have been.
One of the cornerstone assumptions that underpin the understanding of LENR is that the fundamental forces of nature are not really fundamental but emergent from more basic structures of reality. Because the strong and the weak force depend on other more fundamental aspects of reality, if those more basic aspects change, so can the way that these forces of nature that depend on these aspects can be made to change.
ReplyDeleteThis realization that the forces of nature can change when the causation changes is what understanding LENR is all about.
If one of these forces is shown to emerge from the basic structure of the universe, then the other forces are also likely to emerge in the same way. In this light, the work of Erik Verlinde explains in a new video, his alternative theory about gravity. Verlinde presents gravity as an emergent phenomenon. This means that at the very smallest scale gravity does not exist. It is a consequence of the distribution of information in the universe, which manifests at a larger scale.
Abstract by Erik Verlinde: Logically speaking the observed deviations from the laws of gravity of Newton and Einstein in galaxies and clusters can be either due to the presence of unseen dark matter particles or due to a change in the way gravity works in these situations. Until recently there appeared to be no reason to doubt that general relativity correctly describes gravity in all circumstances. In the last few year insights from black hole physics and string theory have led to important theoretical advances in our understanding of gravity. A new theoretical framework is being developed in which the gravitational laws are derived as emerging from changes in the quantum entanglement of the microscopic information that is underlying space-time. I will make clear that this new theory of emergent gravity provides a conceptual explanation for why general relativity receives modifications in galaxies and clusters. I will present a quantitative estimate of these modifications and show that these agree with the observed phenomena currently attributed to dark matter.
In like fashion, the strong and the weak force might also be derived as emerging from changes in the quantum entanglement of the microscopic information that is underlying space-time.
For more information, see
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25IyrYltPPI[/media]