Sunday, August 14, 2016

AUG 14, 2016 LENR


Image result for optimism quotationsImage result for optimism quotations


Jed Rothwell's expression of IHyperoptimism: 1MW could NOT be consumed!
Jed writes a comment  on my Blog:

You are a chemical engineer. You know as well as anyone there is no such thing as an endothermic industrial process that magically swallows up 1 MW and makes it vanish. At long last, can you not see that Rossi is lying? This is yet another blatant, extravagant, preposterous lie. Why do you believe him? Have you lost all common sense? Have you forgotten everything about chemistry and physics?

You need to get a grip on reality. Rossi has no excess heat. It is all a lie. The evidence is overwhelming, and now he is reduced to making claims that any sane chemical engineer knows are impossible.

My answer:
Jed I like your optimism and youthful enthusiasm- this is a bit different from saying absurd things about flowmeters. However again technology and logic are not your strengths. And again you apply the 3rd method of mass manipulation "mix and kill"
First  speaking about endotherm industrial processes you are focused on chemical reactions; actually the greatest part of energy is used for purifications, separations, concentrating, physical processes  a lot of unit operations presented for example in this unforgettable book 
that was our Bible already in the 50'ies.
And all these unit operations are "endotherm". In "fine chemistry" JMC probable profile multiple operations as for manufacture of analytical or other high purity reagents as well as in isotope separation much energy is needed.
But an other mixing of things by you is more important. The main issue is the
energy balance of the !MW plant- (you stubbornly call it calorimetry) energy out with the steam produced, energy back with the hot water returned- the difference gives 
the energy produced that reported to the electric energy fed to the E-Cats gives indeed high values up to COP 50- you will see. 
So energy balance and the activity of the customer are two different things.
Let's be pragmatic, realistic and materialistic:
This was an experiment, its value was 89 million dollars  (will be 3 times more if Rossi wins in the Trial) so  it is not the case to be very strict with the expenses. The steam goes to the Customer he uses a part of the heat- not the steam for his chemical and adjacent processes and the rest is sent to a system of heat exchangers in series, the steam is cooled down up to 60C and the secondary water is sent to the grain. Addio heat, no problem, the heat exchangers are well insulated. What can show an IR photo of the Customers building? Who cares for  a few cu,m warm water in the drain? Problem solved- the 1MW energy must be CONSUMED (extracted, removed) not USED! Do not mix the 2 functions! Again do not mix Test, ENERGY BALANCE with the activity of the CUSTOMER.
Most important do not mix your IHWISHES with reality, naivety is charming for young pretty girls not for a vociferous middle-aged propagandists: do you indeed believe that Rossi, Penon, Fabiani, their attorney are taking such fatal risks as starting and continuing this sad Trial IF they are not sure they can give perfect answers to such accusations as this: "the 1MW energy cannot be consumed"?
Try please to improve your thinking.


1) A NEW THREAD: A third part room sized calorimeter available to LENR researchers:

2) A significant dialog of Andrea Rossi with Felix Rends

Felix Rends
August 13, 2016 at 6:34 PM

“You have my honour word that what I wrote here is the truth.”

That is all I want to know, you have my full respect and my full support!

Thank you very much!

Felix Rends

Andrea Rossi
August 13, 2016 at 7:31 PM

Felix Rends:
One more reason to work.
Warm Regards

Felix Rends
August 13, 2016 at 3:20 PM

Dear Andrea Rossi,

I understand that you cannot really respond in detail to the technical questions and legal issues in the current situation, but I have you to ask the ‘question of all questions’, which all members of the LENR community worldwide and also me as the moderator of the German section of interest most:

Can you assure me personally that the ECAT works and do I have your word as a gentleman that both the Levi Lugano Report, as well as the current 350 days ERV Report of Penon (self sustain mode, COP least 50) correspond to the truth?

It’s not about mistrust, I would not be so engaged all these years, if I were not convinced of the LENR technology per se, but especially your device has the potential to change the world and I would be really grateful if you personally could answer me this question and I would feel much better if I had your word as a gentleman!

Best regards and good luck
Felix Rends

Andrea Rossi
August 13, 2016 at 5:45 PM

Felix Rends:
I have dedicated to this work the second part of my life and part of my health. I am no more the same of one year ago.
About the Lugano Report: the test has not been made by me, nor has been the report and for the truth of it speaks the life of the nuclear physicists that made it, their honesty, their professional skill matured in two among the highest rated Universities and in the CERN of Geneva where all of them have worked. About the test of one year of the 1 MW Plant, the measurements have been made for one year by a nuclear engineer, who got his doctorate in nuclear engineering when he was 23 years old in the University of Bologna with 110/110 summa cum laude, then worked as a nuclear engineer in a nuclear power plant, then, taking advantage of such experience, became a professional specialized in certifications and validations of industrial plants and industrial products. He has been chosen, as proven by copious documents, in agreement between IH and us to make the ERV and he made it with all his professional skills and with the integrity that characterized all his life, that is immaculate under any point of view, as I investigated when I knew him because I had to choose a trusted professional to make the safety certification of my products years ago; he resulted to be the best in absolute among all his colleagues for preparation, honesty, confidentiality. This is also the reason why he has been chosen to make the ERV, in agreement between IH and us. By the way, IH has totally agreed upon his report released after 3 months of test, and has cited such report in interviews released by Tom Darden. Same thing happened after 6 months of test, when the second quarterly report has been released by the ERV, same thing again happened after 9 months, when the ERV released the third quarterly report: please note that during 9 months of the test IH repeatedly accompanied to visit the test their investors, explaining to them how the ERV was measuring the performance, showing the seals of the flowmeter, showing the temperature measurement system ( agreed upon directly between Mr Tom Darden and the ERV) and IH collected many million dollars of investments from Woodford after the officers of Woodford visited the test twice, during the first 9 months, and repeatedly accompanied Chinese top level investors and engineers to visit the test. The results of the first three quarterly reports, obviously, were substantially equal to the results of the fourth and final report, that IH now is renegating. Eventually, IH paid the first three quarterly reports, but did not pay the final one. The first three reports determined the allowance to IH of enormous investments and they loved them. The fourth report determined the obligation of IH to pay us and they discovered the results were wrong: what a strange coincidence.
You have my honour word that what I wrote here is the truth.
I totally sympathyze with you and with all the persons like you and also this is why I work like a beast, even now that is Saturday, as tomorrow Sunday, and always on this endevour..
After all these years you merit to go in a shop and buy an E-Cat, damn !
Warm Regards,
Let me add that both the tests of Lugano and Doral have been performed for long timespans, respectively 1 month and 1 year, with the obvious consequent 





  1. Hi Jed,

    I know you will see this post, so I ask you to please not litter any more sites with your broken thoughts. It is very sad to see you twitch like that. Your new neurons are unable to form, and all of your thoughts are over heating you. You are trying to vent the excess heat! Without new neurons forming, you are unable to process. Try to answer this question as a test: What is Geniux?

    Hope you feel better soon!

  2. Peter,
    That is not new but just in case somebody missed it

    Uri Bazutov (Бажутов). Russian only. Skip to about half for a working reactor.

    In an essence
    1. It is plasma electrolysis reactor.
    2. Cop 6-7
    3. Detects neutrons but can eliminate them by changing electrolyte.
    4. Worked  alongside Parkhomenko for 3 yeas before he went freelancing.
    5. Calls Vysostskiy of Kiev 'my colleague' .
    6. Explains results by a presence of cosmic particle which reminds me of ether/aether
    7. Even though he worked on replication of Rossi the reactor process reminds that of brilliant light

    1. Dear Max,

      Surely I have reported with pleasure and care about this important Bazgutov demo. Just be kind and search for Bazhutov in EGO OUT.
      This is he Russian E-Cat experiment.
      Please verify.
      Best wishes,

  3. Peter - let's assume that the Customer was real and used a real process that used 98% of the steam energy at ~100°C and thus the visible heat emitted by the building was only 20kW. As you might recognise, that's a fair number of unjustifiable physical assumptions, but let that rest for a bit....

    Do you think that the lorryloads of "stuff" being delivered and taken away would not have been noticed?

    If the heat was dumped down the drains at 50°C (to avoid the problem of the drains melting) then don't you think that after a short time that heat signature would not have been visible to an IR survey, and that the water-use of that factory would have been also billed (and it would be a big bill)?

    Where is the corroborative evidence that the heat was in fact there? Where is the evidence that the heat was used? Are you really willing to accept that Rossi's customer can break Conservation of Energy by destroying most of 1MW of heat? That's certainly what it looks like to me.

    Giovanni Santostasi has shown just how much material would be needed to "consume" all the heat. With input water temperature at 15°C and output at 50°C (so it can legally go down the drain) you'd be using an entire building-full of water every 6.6 days or so. That's a lot of water.... Would the pipes to the building be sufficient and would the drains be adequate? How far would the heat-signature spread after a few weeks of this?

    Please consider the consequences if the claims were true.

    1. Dear Simon,

      The essence is this IH wants to show that the problem of consuminng he 1MW heat is unmanageable, ergo there is no heat,. I and others have shown that actually it cn be solved easily in principle. Say 20 cu.m water of 45 C going to the drain is not a a great deal.
      It is an other problem thow it was done in reality, but we weill know it soon from Leonardo's answer to the Counterclaims, amendaments.
      See e/g. what people discuss on E-Ctaworld today.a
      Including a=Abd who is more reakist than Hed and Giovanni
      who seem to be unable to get thsi;
      a) what happened wit the nergy is not relevant for the energy balance;
      b) the nergy can be practically removed eveen if that implies some expenses


  4. Hi Peter - what happened to the energy produced is extremely relevant. The calculations should demonstrate this:

    Assume input water temperature of 15°C, output water temperature 45°C, specific heat of water 4.2 kJ/kgK (actually somewhere around 4.179 over this range, but that's for pure water), and 980kW to dissipate, given that the heat-plume seen was around 20kW.

    980kW = 9.8E+5J/s or 3528000000 J/h, approximate as 3.53E+9J/h
    20m³ water approximates as 2E+4kg and thus needs around 8.4E+7J to raise by 1°C..
    To raise by 30°C needs 2.52E+9J
    To raise by 40°C (output 55°C but still just legal) needs 3.36E+9J. Since we need to be below 60°C, 20m³ of water per hour is enough to remove the heat.

    I'll thus assume that when you said 45°C you meant 55°C and it was just a typo, and we need around 20m³ of water per hour to get rid of the 980kW. This is 5.5555 litres/second so approximate this as 5.5 litres/second.

    Water flow in a pipe is limited to around 3m/s (to avoid cavitation) and the Doral warehouse has a 2" pipe. This is an internal area of around 0.002m² or 20cm². With a litre being about 1000cc we need around 50cm of pipe to contain 1 litre, and thus we need 2.75m of pipe to contain 5.5litres.

    The velocity of the water in the pipe must thus be 2.75m/s. This is right at the limit of what is reasonable, and may be beyond the actual sustained delivery capacity of the system. We don't however have any details of the available water-delivery capacity of the Doral warehouse.

    Given 20m³/h over 350 days (though it does seem that the 1MW was still produced even on days that the reactor was switched off) the water-bill would be for 168000m³ of water, otherwise stated as 168kilotonnes of water or around 594,720,000 US gallons. This is 49,560,000 US gallons per month in an area where a family house has an average use of 9,000 gallons a month and are capped at 14,000 gallons per month. Rossi's "customer" would be using as much water as over 5500 normal houses. I'm fairly certain that that amount of water-use would have been both noticed and billed. It's also certain that so much hot water being put down a drain would have shown up on an IR survey.

    Net result from all this:
    Yes, you can get rid of the ~1MW of heat by heating water and putting it down the drain. That does seem a bit strange since the power-bill for doing that was $30k/month. Since there was no large delivery of material for processing or processed material shipped out from that warehouse, the heated water option looks to be the only possible way of doing this. The use of that massive amount of water would however have been noticed (and billed) and the IR signature of the hot drains would have been visible a long way away from the warehouse itself. You probably wouldn't even need an IR camera to see it, since the ground would feel hot when you walked on it.

    You can hold on to the idea of "yes it was possible" if you want, but the corroborative evidence of the existence of that amount of heat just isn't there. If you can show a water-bill or any reasonable evidence that the heat was produced and got rid of in a way that could not be seen, then I'll shut up and wait for Rossi to Save The World with his LENR+.