Sunday, August 11, 2013


Cold fusion is here! Greek researchers give evidence for the most incredulously ears.
TO VIMA, Sunday Newspaper, August 4th, 2013, Athens, Greece

Our readers who had read the last episode of the "cold fusion in Greece” thriller (see article /? aid = 486578) had taken two notes: First, that Defkalion Green Technologies (DGT internationally) moved the headquarters to Vancouver, Canada. Second, that by the end of the summer they would present us with concrete proof their reactor can turn from a controversial experiment into a product capable of supporting a completely new energy era.
I was thinking intensely what exactly happened during the eight months of 'emigration' and what would the current product be when, late July, came the first bizarre information: Defkalion was negotiating the opening of new offices at Syngrou avenue, in Athens, and they had "close contact" with Fasmatech, a company manufacturing spectrographs-to order, at "Democritos" Research Institute technology hub. What had actually happened? I requested an interview with Defkalion`s CEO Alexandros Xanthoulis and his reply confirmed the information I had received: he was back in Athens-Greece and he would meet me at their new offices which are now the headquarters for Greece, the Balkans, and the Middle East.

But before I refer to the questions I asked him and the responses I received it is necessary to inform you of what else happened on this "hot July” to the field of Cold fusion. So many things happened that Cold Fusion is anything but “cold “since...

Battleship Missouri
As all physics students know by now, the famous announcement by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, in 1989, that they had produced nuclear fusion in room temperature, was eventually called "the biggest fiasco in the history of physics”.A group of physics professors which was formed by the U.S. President ruled that the announcement was based on a bunch of errors of the two researchers, their careers were destroyed, the U.S. Office of Patent and Trademark refused hereafter to accept similar patents and many books were written that ridiculed Cold Fusion scientists calling them "dreamers”. However, the way which the two scientists were silenced as well as some unexplained results of similar experiments, rallied many of researchers who insisted on pursuing cold fusion to an annual conference, called ICCF.
This year the 18th ICCF took place in University of Missouri, between 21 and 27 of July. There were 83 speakers and was attended by scientists from 26 countries. What the scientists of “Physics Orthodoxy" were expecting from this conference was one more attempt of the "unorthodox” to offer another theoretical foundation on their unfounded fantasies. Instead they were surprised when two well-known Japanese researchers offered scientific explanations to the mysteries associated to Defkalion`s technology.

Akito Takahashi supported that the key was the unique formation of a Tetrahedral Symmetric Cluster of four deuterons, which then fuse to Be8 before fissioning to alpha particles (two neutrons and two protons as in nuclei of stellar helium He2+).

On his side, Dr. Tadahiko Mizuno said that " when heavy electrons enter the outer shell of a proton, the radius of the hydrogen atom becomes exponentially smaller with respect to the weight of the heavy electrons, bringing the protons closer together. When this happens, the probability of tunneling fusion increases exponentially The nuclear reaction can be controlled with this energy production method of bringing protons
and heavy electrons together inside nanoparticles. This brings within reach the goal of developing a practical nanoparticle energy reactor. Dr. Mizuno`s measurements also confirmed last year's announcement at the ICCF by John Hatzichristos, Defkalion`s Director of Technology, of the existence of isotope pairs in their reaction.

Even more monstrous for the "Physics Orthodoxy though was the thesis of Yeong E. Kim, a highly qualified U.S. Professor of Physics at the Purdue University. His thesis was co-signed by DGT’s John Hadjichristos. Under the title "Theoretical analysis and mechanisms of reaction for experimental results of hydrogen-nickel systems”, their work explained what might be happening in Defkalion`s reactor in order to get "unreasonably multiplied” energy output than that consumed.

Kim explained to the conference that Hyperion (Defkalion’s reactor) contains a core of metallic nickel foam that is heated from 180 ° C to 849 ° C, with a plasma arch. After that, you observe a sharp increase of the magnetic field within the reactor between 0.6 to 1,6 Tesla. This according to Kim indicates that "the reaction results in very strong electric fields E, currents I and magnetic fields B”. He also reported that at the Defkalion tests that he attended, excess heat  was produced only from the even isotopes of nickel (Ni 58, 60, 62 and 64), while odd isotopes (Ni 61) do not produce excess heat.Completing his presentation on the reaction, Kim reported that he did not detect any other gamma radiation other than that between 50 keV and 300 keV and presented graphs indicating excess heat output and a control system that could start, stop and control the reaction at will. 

Then he proceeded to a theoretical explanation of this phenomenon: He described his theory of Boson Cluster-State Nuclear Fusion (BCSNF), which he extended to include hydrogen–metal systems, and said that the predicted values of the reaction can be compared  with the experimental values measured during of the Defkalion`s reaction. In his opinion, what happens is that the magnetic fields created enforce the magnetic alignment of the nickel atoms, which in turn create ​​local magnetic traps (LMT) of bosons on the surface of nickel dust, although these traps have a short lifespan. And he summed up: "The report of the mixture of hydrogen and nickel dust to the plasma arch generates a magnetic field that leads atoms in Rydberg state and allows to create magnetic traps at the nanoscale. The fusion of the captive bosons on the nickel surface produces excess heat and local discharge sparks ".

According to Kim, this self-sustained reaction could be improved by increasing the density of reactant gas. This must be tested in the next generation of Defkalion`s reactor (code named Hyperion R-6). This will happen after a on-line real-time mass spectrometer - which has been already ordered from the Greek company Fasmatech and it is been currently manufactured - becomes operational.The problem has been solved," Kim concluded with enthusiasm and he declared eager to speak to any other theorist of physics in order to convince them. And, as he stated in an interview ( at Vancouver I witnessed a protocoled successful test with results leaving no doubt about plenty of heat in excess and good control of the device. I am an optimist regarding the principles, but also for discovering and or creating the details which I plan to work on very hard in collaboration with my DGTG friends.

The striptease dare
Scientifically speaking, the cold fusion arsenal had now been increased dramatically. However, for the skeptics of the experimental reaction the question remained as to how the measurements and the theoretical explanations were the results of a controlled environment and the ability of the reactor to repeat the process over and over again.
And then... something unexpected happened: On Tuesday 23 of July Defkalion broadcasted to the ICCF conference (and around the world through the Internet) an eight hour long live experimental running of the reactor.The experiment took a place at Defkalion`s laboratories in Milan, under the supervision of Mats Lewan, an independent observer (editor of the Swedish energy magazine «NyTeknik» and electrical engineer).
This broadcast was preceded by another broadcast the previous day, for an Italian TV channel and a radio station. During the eight-hour experiment Defkalion`s technicians emptied all the hydrogen from the Hyperion chambers and they filled it up with argon. Then they refilled with hydrogen and put it into operation. Although the process of filling with argon was sped up (normally would require many more hours) resulting in reduction of the system`s output performance, at the end they managed to prove that by consuming 2.7 KW of power the reactor produced 5.5 kW of heat. The approximately 1,000 online viewers of the experiment remained largely mystified by the results. Most of them were wondering if there were any hidden cables that were secretly powering the system. However an oversight of the observer, Mats Lewan, as he was franticly checking the set up blew a fuse and sank the rest of the building in the dark!  After that it was rather obvious that Hyperion`s electric circuit was a closed one and free of any mischief.
The impact of this live demonstration was extremely positive. Everybody applauded Defkalion`s courage to "open its cards" in such a bold way. Physicist Steven E. Jones - who fought against Pons and Fleischmann, back in 1989 and who participated in the conference, said: " From my observations, this is a project well worth paying attention to - interesting work and the team is showing admirable courage to open the project to scientific scrutiny in this manner.”. He also said that "the fact that they have observed a huge magnetic anomaly (in the reactor) does not surprise me. I expect it”. After 24 years ...  he was expecting it. But where are Pons and Fleischmann now, who were so harshly ridiculed?
The reaction of the Forbes magazine to the noise that the broadcast of the experiment generated was especially characteristic: When the special columnist Marc Gibbs wrote an article titled "Defkalion broadcasts live cold fusion experiment- now "(see /defkalion demonstrates-lenrlive-right-now /) ...he lost his job! Trying to figure out why he was dismissed brings a lot of thoughts to mind. But most important was the earth shuttering reply that came next day: The famous Nobel prize laureate of the eponymous Josephson effect - Professor of Cambridge, Brian David Josephson- posted to YouTube the experiment (see ), noting: " Will this be the event that finally leads to acceptance of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (cold fusion)?”

Interview: Top of FormAlexandros Xanthoulis

I went up to the new offices of Defkalion via an elevator that needed a special security code to operate. "Does this mean that you returned to Greece and abandoned Vancouver? I asked the CEO and economist Alexandros Xanthoulis.

"We always said that we would be back, although we were not sure that we could accomplish it that soon. We are not abandoning Vancouver though, as we similarly maintaining our other research center in Milan also. Our Athens office is a subsidiary of the Canadian company and covers the Middle East and the Balkans, as Milan covers Europe. The main partner of the R&D center and all companies is the Canadian Entity which carries out the administration also. Things evolve so rapidly that local presence at various points of the planet is vital."
"But is it not reasonable that someone might ask where would your assembly line be? I insisted.

"You should not look at us as an entity that would build Hyperion reactors. Defkalions prime role is research and development.Our technology has been tested by 12 different companies so far, out of which ten are part of the top companies in the world. Each one of these companies like some of the1300 other ones, from 78 countries, that we are dealing would be buying the rights of developing reactors for specific sectors and specific markets/countries. Defkalion will only develop reactors in Greece, in Xanthi, Greece, to be more specific, and for two sectors only: one would be for marine propulsion, heating and refrigeration (with 50% investor participation) and the second in providing energy for desalination factories (from a non-profit subsidiary of Defkalion). This second area is part of our humanitarian commitment to our planet, in the sense that we would not only provide cheap water solutions to our islands but also to poor countries on the planet that face severe water problems, as in Africa etc.
I smiled as I was multiplying in my mind 1300 companies times the $40 million dollars that is rumored the average cost to buy rights from Defkalion... But how real is all that? I pressed him for company names and proofs. He refused, saying that he is bound by confidentiality agreements that were requested and signed with businesses that already purchased rights.
Our meeting continued with a kind of arm wrestling match of information: I kept of bringing up company names that rumor had it they bought the rights already and him politely refusing to verify. So I cannot tell you who has already invested in Defkalions Cold-Fusion technology, but I can surely bet that: before it comes to the point that you will be able to buy  a small cold fusion engine for your house, certain car, motorcycle, stove, train and airplane makers/manufacturers would be already using them on their models. Even huge IT companies energy hungry farms of  servers.Maybe even Space Vehicle/Rocket manufacturers.
"And all this even before you formally introduced some non-experimental model of the Hyperion,,,», I commented. And then? What will your next step be? ".
"Our next step has already begun. Scientifically, it is the vast improvement of the engine, with the exploitation of the unique spectrometer that is manufactured for us by Fasmatech, right here in Greece. Business wise is our listing at the Toronto Stock Market. We are working on our paperwork and we believe that we would be able to negotiate after  October 15th, 2013. Starting November 1st, we will hold a Road Show from city to city to promote our share. "

"Listing in the Stock Market means that by October you will reveal your secret partners?"

"Yes, of course."
"And you will not have been acquired until then, by anyone? Rumor has it that there has been close business flirting by a female representative of China ... ".

"At times weve had many flirts from many countries. I could easily say from every continent. "

"Are there any of the big countries that havent shown any interest so far?".

"Yes. Russia ".

A recently published report related to cold fusion developments from Ukraine came to my mind.
Maybe because they have their own solution in their hat "I added.
For a moment he seemed to be counting the possibilities. I thought of grabbing the opportunity to surprise him.

"How about the check with seven zeros that was given to you by a consortium of Spanish bankers, businessmen and politicians so they can acquire a 21% share of Defkalion?  Wasnt this the beginning to sell even more pieces of the pie? '.
He laughed.  "I don`t know what you are talking about, but if someone is willing to add another zero to the number you said...maybe, "he replied.

P.S: While the rest will be waiting for October, all the scientifically sceptical take a look at Professor Yeong E. Kims theory that explains  Defkalions cold fusion technology:


  1. "You should not look at us as an entity that would build Hyperion reactors. Defkalion’s prime role is research and development.Our technology has been tested by 12 different companies so far, out of which ten are part of the top companies in the world. Each one of these companies – like some of the1300 other ones, from 78 countries, that we are dealing – would be buying the rights of developing reactors for specific sectors and specific markets/countries."
    Really? And Hadjichristos wants me (whom he sees as an anonymous internet troll) to do an independent test? Well... that makes PERFECT sense! (NOT)

    Maybe he'll explain why he needs more tests after all those companies have tested. Maybe he'll explain why not a ONE of ALL those companies is willing to be identified! Maybe he will tell us why he has never revealed the promised test results and identifications from the seven *famous* companies who tested in April 2012. It defies comprehension. If, of course, it's true.

  2. MY, dude, if I were you I wouldn't reveal my identity -slander on its face can get you some pretty hefty punative damages and if you never reveal your identity you can claim that others posted under your username. What, does JH think your stupid or something?

    1. First, written defamation isn't slander. It's libel. Second, the truth is an absolute defense to charges of libel. Third, the above isn't libel. It is simply asking for an explanation of some truly unbelievable, extravagant and extreme claims. Or do you really think Xanthoulis and his company have made hundreds or thousands of $40 million deals and they are bothering to make their machine available to me to test?

      By the way, I have already submitted to Peter Gluck at his request, an outline of proposed testing methods I would use if my colleagues and I were ever allowed to test Hyperions. Let's see if Defkalion responds to that.

    2. Mary and her friends have indeed given some ood extremal ideas re testing, Some other ideas are dangerous for the testers or can damage the generator. This is my initiative.
      as long as no normal company communicates with a person having no identity and Mary is scared to death to reveal
      who she is ( a phrase in her style) she is excluded from any test. It is a loss,not for her skills but for her
      negative reputation- most fanatic LENR+ denier.


  3. Ah yes, the howlingly stupid claim of 1.6 tesla fields again. Perhaps the CTO's time would better be spent learning some basic instrument handling techniques? But there's no money in that...

  4. MY, you're right written slander is libel, and I can see AR as a public figure, but JH? From what I can see Defkalion pulled their public forum so as to keep its officers out of the limelight and make them less likely to be adjudged public figures. You're playing with fire dude.

    1. Playing with fire? I don't think so. Think a bit about motive. If Defkalion could show that their previous claims (which I have criticized) were true, I'd be the first to admit it! I favor proper demonstration of cold fusion. I have never opposed it. I have no reason to libel them.

      Then, truth is an absolute defense. To even get past a preliminary review, the company would have to prove beyond a doubt that the technology is real.

      There is an obvious precedent in the Sniffex case. James Randi called their explosive detector a fraud. They sued for defamation.

      The first thing the judge did was to ask them to submit a sample of the device for testing by defense experts and to demonstrate in court with their own experts that it worked as advertised. The law suit was IMMEDIATELY dropped. You can Google it.

      Second, all I have stated is clearly my opinion only. The only assertions of fact are those that come directly from Defkalion's claims. And that is supported by written records in their own words and from their own forum!

      Finally, in the highly unlikely event that Defkalion could prove that the Hyperion works, I'd be the first person to apologize to them. All over the place. Obviously, I think that such proof is about as likely as Hell freezing over. But if they proved it, I would apologize and they would deserve it.

      With respect to "anonymous" below and the citation, the venue here would be the United States, not Canada. And the US has great respect for freedom of speech and opinion.

      Defkalion has never countered my opinions about them nor have they specifically asked me to stop writing what I do about them-- all factors if they plan to sue me.

      And I am just guessing here but if Defkalion really is working with 1300 companies including ten of the world's largest, they probably have better things to do than sue what they see as a silly internet troll.

      If in fact they are not working with the companies they claim, then they are lying and my suppositions about them are true. You can't have it both ways!


  6. Yes, but a sharp attorney could argue that the obiquitous, persistent and tactical nature of your responses to any and all mention of Defkalion's business activities represents a comprehensive and planned malicious campaign of libel.

    1. A "sharp" attorney can argue most anything but reputable ones will be reluctant to argue *obvious* loser cases because it erodes their credibility with the court and future clients when they lose very badly. There are also sanctions for frivolous suits.
      There is no malice (or profit) in my writing. I'd prefer that LENR be real-- I've said that many times. That would be much more fun than the current circus of unproven and badly demonstrated claims.

      I don't respond to any and all mention of Dekalion. I respond to assertions that they have the holy grail of energy production. I respond to claims that they have the most important discovery of the century. I respond to evidence that they may be trying to obtain investments on false pretenses. That, I believe, is all covered by freedom of speech -- in the US anyway.

    2. Not an "obvious loser case" but still a "loser case". Right now the supreme court favors the protection of anonymous postings but inferred that protection was mostly for political and not business discussions. The protection of the anonymity of posters is not so well defined, although compelling reasons would probably have to be shown to obtain these identities from isp's. Damages too would have to be proved and that would seem impossible with such a highly speculative arena as alternative energy.

  7. Having followed the stories of Andrea Rossi and DGT since pretty much the beginning (and been around when the P&F story exploded), am very interested in these developments.

    The single biggest obstacle for me to trying to believe in LENR/LENR+ was the ongoing lack of a viable theory as to how this anomalous heat could be generated. I now believe the theoretical basis is emerging from eminent scientists whose credibility is hard to challenge. But of course we then have the vociferous counter claims of bloggers such as MarYugo/AlPotenza who know better than anyone else and who have no trouble saying so, at times in the most vulgar way.

    Agreed there has been 24 years of 'erratic' experiments (esp Pd+D) and more consistent results from LENR+ (Ni+H).

    Piantelli stumbled on anomalous heat effects from Ni+H while doing his preferred cancer research. His preference for cancer research meant he never put too much of his time into his discovery. The poison from the unfortunate furor generated by the P&F debacle slowed many down.

    But, Piantelli has been granted 2 fully described (a third is pending) patents on his discoveries. 1st in 1995 (lapsed) and 2nd in 2013.

    Andrea Rossi appears to have recognized the 'opportunity' emerging from the work of Piantelli and Prof. Yoshiaki Arata. Rossi saw that little progress was being made despite the encouraging results from these researchers' works. Andrea Rossi approached Piantelli in 2007 to work with him to progress Ni+H results into a product but Piantelli declined so Andrea Rossi went to the elderly former partner and associate of Piantelli (Prof Sergio Focardi) in mid 2007 and asked him to collaborate. Prof Focardi agreed but in 2007/2008 he kept asking his friend and former research partner Piantelli to help solve issues that Andrea Rossi was experiencing. Focardi never told Piantelli that the answers provided were being passed on to Andrea Rossi. This information is publicly documented.

    Andrea Rossi has a theatrical and at time mercurial personality - one only has to look at his flamboyant past to realize this (sponsoring racing teams etc: when Petrol Dragon was at its prime). Andrea Rossi has been asked about his claimed eCat successes in regard to its origins with Piantelli but Rossi's response was "I build working reactors, he doesn't".

    Andrea Rossi has his various forms of eCat (coolcat, hotcat, mouse-cat). These have triggered enormous reactions from bloggers with claims of outright fraud or that Rossi failed to understand / control what he was able to create from his association with Sergio Focardi. But, some people and scientists with very serious credentials have stated publicly several times that Andrea Rossi has a working device that generates anomalous heat but for which no one can adequately explain how or why..

    The MaryYugo/AlPotenzas/JMillstone (if MY/AP id is truly just 1 person) of this world will tell you (ad infinitum and endlessly in a blog barrage of great effort) that it is all scam. 1st with the line that LENR was unreal (but of late that line no longer works) so now it is a Rossi energy scam and thus a DGT scam.

    Anyone who doesn't wonder why MY/AP blast blogs this extreme message non stop, just doesn't observe what is actually going on!. Again we must all draw our own conclusions. I am clear on mine. Think about the billions of $s committed to an endless quest for plasma based fusion and the lack of results and the abominable threat to this effort from any success in LENR/LENR+. It is not hard to work out some peoples' motives for their blog-blasting and virulent opposition to LENR/LENR+ and personal attacks on anyone who appears to endorse it / promote it / believe in it.

    DSM (part 1 of 2)

  8. Part 2 of 2

    Andrea Rossi is in dispute with both Piantelli and the EPO in regard to his EPO Nov 2008 application for a patent for his eCat and the opposition to that application filed by Piantelli (who claimed it was mostly a copy of the Piantelli 1995 patent) and Rossi's Apr 2013 request to the EPO to overturn their granting in Jan 2013 of a 2nd LENR patent to Piantelli on the grounds his Apr 2008 Italian eCat patent is prior art). A bizarre twist of claims and counter claims. One has to draw one's own conclusions as to who has the greater legitimacy and I am in little doubt of this.

    Then we have the work of Brillouin who are working with SRI to produce a large scale boiler based on their early small scale success.

    DGT are at 1st appeared to me as an enigma. As time has passed too many leaks (from 1st hand people I know (i.e. NASA investigators)) have indicated that DGT were taking the Ni+H anomalous heat effect to new levels of control and also had a working device but that showed this greater control than anything Andrea Rossi has been able to demonstrate of which some demos went out of control (failed units and in 1 case a meltdown).

    IMHO, DGT did a successful demo of their device and ICCF-18. Now I would like to see (when it makes business sense) further demos / scientific validations of their device.

    I am satisfied the scientific theories are able to explain the results and that the technique used by DGT to ...
    1) pre prepare the Ni molecular structure
    2) ionise the H gas
    3) send the magneticially manipulated dipoles formed by the eliptical orbiting ionised H atoms, into the Ni lattice
    4) and trigger anomalous heat from the NAEs, under control

    To this end I offered my friend Australian businessman Dick Smith a $1,000 charity bet (the losers pays it into the other's nominated charity), that the DGT process will be scientifically accepted by 1st week of Aug 2014. Dick Smith is one who remains convinced that DGT are perpetrating a scam. IMHO he is being ill-advised.

    DSM (end 2 of 2)

    1. Dick Smith has asked me to add the requirements to satisfy our bet.

      Actually they are the same as what we put on the original $1 mill prize that Dick Smith offered and I set up here ...

      A min COP of 3 and a min of 5KW output and just to tighten up the bet am adding delivery of the above for a minimum of 24 hrs.


    2. DSM:

      Thank You!
      Your comment is the best summary of the situation, the scene and the players I have have found so far!

    3. @DSM

      "The MaryYugo/AlPotenzas/JMillstone (if MY/AP id is truly just 1 person) of this world will tell you (ad infinitum and endlessly in a blog barrage of great effort) that it is all scam. 1st with the line that LENR was unreal (but of late that line no longer works) so now it is a Rossi energy scam and thus a DGT scam.

      Anyone who doesn't wonder why MY/AP blast blogs this extreme message non stop, just doesn't observe what is actually going on!"

      That's simply silly. No skeptic I know, outside of a very few lunatics, accuses everyone attempting LENR of fraud or scam. I certainly *never* have.

      As for me, I *favor* development of LENR. I would love to see it work. But, as I consistently say, Defkalion and Rossi have given the exact *appearance* of being investment and/or distributor scams. Everything they do and the way they do it are exactly what a scammer would do. Out of respect for the host, I won't enumerate again these points or the many examples of similar prior scams.

      I only have an opinion about claims to high power levels. The smaller claims, I can't judge. There are too many sources of possible error and looking at all of those involves technical specialties I don't have. On the other hand, determining whether Rossi or Defkalion have done truly credible and independent calorimetry is something I am competent to judge. And they clearly have not.

      Tell you what, I would also take your bet, but for $5000 if you're willing ($1000 is fine if you're not). But you must define what you mean by "scientifically accepted". That is extremely vague. I don't want there to be a debate about the merits of who does the accepting.

      For example, I would accept the result if a major national lab such as SANDIA or ORNL or Livermore or a large and famous company with no LENR involvement such as Google or SpaceX or GE or GM or NI had done a truly independent test and had published the result in a *major* *main line* peer reviewed journal.

      Bamboozling newspaper reporters and over-credulous groups of scientists working on their own and not officially for their institutions does not count. That seems to be Rossi's specialty.

      The 5 kW and COP of 3 is a bit anemic considering the extravagant past claims (Defkalion as far back as June 2011 was claiming 10 and then 45 kW). But that's OK. Payout can be either to the person or to a charity of their choice-- you decide.

    4. MY,

      Yes, DGT gives the "exact appearance of an investor scam" as you say. You forgot to add though that they also give every appearance of a legit new business experiencing teething problems with a new product based on a still unknown science.

      Based on the two options most of us take the "wait and see approach", all the while debating the merits without making accusatory and highly insulting comments the way you do.

      Giving the benefit of the doubt offers a respectful dialogue without committing to either position, at the same time allowing for healthy debate.... something that seems lost on you.

      As to your point that you reserve the harsher criticisms for Rossi/DGT (LENR+), and spare those claiming lower power (LENR)... I beg to differ.

      Maybe recently, maybe not, you have focused elsewhere, but in the past your rhetoric has been equally harsh of the scientists producing those: "smaller claims that you can't judge". Not only did you judge them; you also were very derogatory of their abilities, qualifications, intelligence and motivations.

      By the way DSM...I agree with what you say. Patent protection and unreliability can account for much of what we see that could understandably lead some to conclude fraud. Just read a good thread over on Vortex that makes the same case as you.

    5. ShaneD

      Thanks for the comment re patents. I have been up to my eyeballs in patents and what they mean (particularly the CarterCopter that I am involved with).

      Also, one only has to wade through the documents filed with the EPO in relation to the various LENR related patents to see how seriously the inventors treat them. Intently is the word I would choose !.

      On another aspect, I cannot follow (from a business perspective) the logic of those who say "Do it open source" or "Give away the process as you will get rich anyway" - uh-uh, that POV is incredibly naive for 2 reasons ...

      1) You simply do not make money giving great ideas away - too many others out there will claim a variant as their own inventions and actively try to discredit the real inventor(s). I could cite the difference between Wozniak and Jobs. Woz wanted to give away his ideas and designs whereas Jobs was determined to make money from them and protect the ip. Apple for a while became the biggest corp in the world and there is little wrong with what Jobs did to create a good global market.

      2) IMHO, If there were no patent protection for an invention & it was from the start free to copy, there might be a bun fight to get to market but very little needed extra research is likely to be funded by those with big money who see no protection for anything their money discovers. The result may be a mess for years until some heavy handed business kills of the competition & grabs the market.


  9. Again with 1.6 Tesla...

    1.6T field is at 20 cm distance from reactor is an absurdity.
    They haven't idea of what would be a so large field.
    It's just for fools.

    1. what is absurd is to say anything definitive
      - when you did not make the measures
      - when you don't have data
      - when you don't have working theory
      - when theory says that it can be surprising, and there is a long list of similar surprising discoveries (cold and hot superconduction, semiconductors, nanotech, BEC)

      I admit my optimism can be criticized for lack of definitive evidence, and i don't say I'm sure they have a COP>=160 under the jacket, I just suspect it.

      However claiming you are sure it is fraud, sure 1.6telsa is false, is absurd.

      we simply don't know, and at most we can say
      - that given knowledge in quantum mechanics, and LENR, huge magnetism field are not to exclude
      - that given the claims of RF, of heat, of gamma, and lack of precision and reproduction, it can be artifact.

    2. Well maybe they think it is kind of crazy too, or think it real yet can't quite figure it out? Either way I get the impression they put it out there to get some feed-back/peer review from the LENR community?

      Isn't that what scientists are supposed to do?... Observe an anomaly, then try to find fault or error -all the while trying to figure out a theory?

      Should they have kept this observation quiet? What would you have done?

      Since this has become public I have seen some good response from some pretty astute observers; ranging from how it could be an artifact, improper measurement, or how it could possibly be real.

      Certainly, saying they are "fools", and this "is an absurdity" accomplishes nothing.

    3. Here is some hint:
      Dr. Keshe - The Universal Order of Creation of Matters

    4. @ Alain Coetmeur

      you often wrote a lot words, but are you able to perform a minimum evaluation on electromagnetic matter?

      Starting from the DGT claim of "measured" a Magnetic Induction of 1.6 Tesla @ 20cm from reactor, you can make calculation and you will verify:

      Magnetic Field should be about 1.3*10^6 A/m
      Electric Field should be "only" 600*10^6 V/m
      and the Current to produce this Field should be "only" 1.5*10^6 A

      Alain, remember that 10^6 means "millions of"

      All people in the room should be died.
      Do you have a practical feeling of what mean these values?

      I confirm that 1.6T field is at 20 cm distance from reactor is an absurdity and it's just for fools and technically ignorant.
      If you don't believe me ask to a competent RF/EM engineer.

      My suggestion is that it is better that you dream less (believing in DGT) and and keep references to science.

    5. ah ah, it remind me cold fusion.
      cows don't fly, and 1.6T with a non superconductor electromagnet is hard to swallow.

      so what?
      in the sky the flying animal are not cows

      in Defkalion we don't know...

      I just know that permanet magnet producing than field exists. A friend have handler such 1T magnet and 20years after I can still talk to him. (his Visa died however).

      I just know LENR is not well understood.
      Ther are some claim it is related to superconduction.
      It is related probably to collective quantum behaviors like ferromagnetism and superconduction.

      there are superconductors electromagnet producing more field for MRI. Some people survived near those magnets. ;-)

      I see no evidence it does not exist.

      I'm just not sure the measure were good, because I did not heard of a precise report, and of opinion of honest experts.

    6. @ Alain Coetmeur
      From your reply I understand that you ignore completely the matter.

      High field of permanent magnet exists inside a core with high magnetic permeability.

      DGT spoke of 1.6 Tesla "measured" at 20 cm from the reactor, not inside a magnetic core or a superconductor but in air.

      Moreover at pag. 5 of the document Kim and Hadjichristos wrote:
      This indicates that LENRs are producing very strong electric fields E (and currents I ) and very strong magnetic fields B=1.6 Tesla !

      Therefore being not magnetostatic field, must exist also the Electric Field and it (as calculated) is in the rage of 600 millions of V/m, this field kills any people close to the reactor.

      Try to read some graduate books to get correct information not just link of Wikipedia.

    7. ok, I forget of permeability .
      is it important ?

      First we don't have the protocol. it is not time to moan about all being false before knowing... You can ask question politely first. Your question is good.

      tell me how is measured a permanent magnet field, and tell me the difference with a LENR reactor potentially superconductor, or ferromagnetic, or something else not less crazy than LENR is.

      imagine that LENR create a simple few tesla magnet

      the flux lines outside of the magnet flow normally, just dispersed, but permeability does not make them weaken.

      Maybe the 1.6 tesla at 20cm is simply meaning that at 20cm they measured a field equivalent to the one of a permanent magnet of 1.6 tesla at 20cm...

      we need more data, more precision, before opening champaign, or before moaning for artifact.

      was the measure done between the two pole 20cm on the side, or 20cm from one side.

      if the field at 20cm side is 1.6T, while the reactor is less than 10cm fat, it means much more field inside...

      we need more detail.

      beside that the computation of electric field is crazy, since it depends on the frequency, and null if nearly static.

      permanent magnet is not killing people in a room except if they have a cardiac valve, or similar ferromagnetic implant.

  10. @ Alain Coetmeur
    You wrote:
    ...I forget of permeability .
    is it important ?

    Oh just a bit, being the permeability a factor that multiply the Magnetic Field (A/m) to get the Magnetic Induction (measured in Tesla).
    If you don't remember or don't know, the permeability μr values are in the range of tenth thousand to one million (10000-1000000).

    You wrote:
    ...imagine that LENR create a simple few tesla magnet
    ...beside that the computation of electric field is crazy, since it depends on the frequency, and null if nearly static.

    Again, You don't read what DGT wrote in the official paper of ICCF-18 and already highlighted in my last comment, and prefer dreaming.
    DGT don't spoke of "permanent magnet field", it's NOT a permanent magnet field.
    They claim clearly for an Electro-Magnetic field.

    As any skilled EM engineer well knows. from Maxwell equations, is immediate to calculate the Electric field and its value does NOT depend from frequency.

    You wrote:
    ...we need more data, more precision, before opening champaign, or before moaning for artifact
    ...we need more detail.

    If you need more details, what are you waiting? Ask directly to DGT:
    - accurate description of measurement and set-up
    - accurate description of used instruments to "measure" 1.6 Tesla
    - test procedure, test report and so on...

    instead of to make megaphone or just propaganda to their absurd claims, without understand the matter.

    DGT clearly attempts to get support from a lot of believe people, unfortunately largely ignorant.

    1. sorry I misled you about permeability, I know what it , and the impact it have on electromagnet.

      the question here, assuming that a mechanism not based on electromagnet (like a permanent magnet, or a complex synchronization of spin domain at macroscopic scale), is whether is change drastically the result.

      when you measure the field of a magnet like the 1-2T rare earth, you measure a local field outside of the magnet, but not far from the pole.
      farther from the pole the magnetic lines the local field is reduced, but not so much (1/R^3 on axis), since what we observe is already based on a magnetic circuit with part ferromagnetic, and part air.

      The only point is the distance of the measurement.
      the size of the active part of the reactor is about a handful of cm, like a big magnet.
      if we observe the 1.6T field at 20cm, this mean that the field near the active part is huge, above 10T if not 100T... improbable, but not so much since LENR is a new animal. it imply some huge risk of artifact on others instruments.
      It is also possible that the active part is longer than what I imagine.

      it can also be that they measured the field, and computed what should be the field in the active part.
      To be honest that would be more useful, and if I had to give a result it would be that one, with the real measured value and position in a appendix for review of the methodology.

      note that my hypothesis of 1.6T estimated on the active part is quite probable, otherwise I'm sure that Yeong Kim would have claimed that a field of 10T or 100T was probably present in the active core.

      you tell me that a static field induce a real (not a virtual, thus useless) electric field ?

      Every engineer know that a static field does not create a material electric field, able to be dangerous.
      And every engineer know that when a field change, it create an electromagnetic wave which is a mix of electric and magnetic field...
      the electric field is not dangerous for low frequency.
      The biggest impact is induction on conductors.

      beside the theory soup and our respective unsupported assumption, we need more details, and basically we need to wait.

      I know they are reading us, and It changes nothing if I ask. ICCF18 audience asked them details, and they have more weight than us.

      They do what they want, and once decided , what they can (workforce, delays, money), and my moaning won't change their strategy.

      I recognize that my knowledge have limits, but I use it to let things open, not to conclude all if fraud.

      moreover I know that the real question are not technical, but human factor.

      If the measure is bad, it is for human reasons, and those reasons are linked to others possibilities, and you have to match those hypothesis with others facts, which are linked to human factors.

  11. @ Alain Coetmeur
    You wrote:
    you tell me that a static field induce a real (not a virtual, thus useless) electric field ?

    No, I said that DGT claim is for an Electro-Magnetic field (not static field as produced by a permanent magnet, if you read carefully the ICCF-18 document you can check) therefore, in this case, also the Electric field exists and its value is extremely high, too much.

    You wrote:
    ...And every engineer know that when a field change, it create an electromagnetic wave which is a mix of electric and magnetic field...
    the electric field is not dangerous for low frequency.

    An Electric field of 650 millions of V/m is fatal for the people also at low frequency.

    I didn't tell fraud (for the moment) but they tell a lot of fibs to gain support from a lot of people ready to believe to them, even if the claim is an absurdity.

    1. It is not and electromagnet field. it is an unknown magnetic phenomenon linked to LENR.
      It is easy to say that there is no animal in the sky if you assume it can only be cows.

      you don't understand what I say. a magnetic field changing slowly does not create that level of electric field. static create none.

      everybody would be dead around MRI machine, and electronics too.

  12. @ Alain Coetmeur

    I try to give you simple elements to understand why DGT claim is absurd.

    If you insert in the application at link:

    in the first column, at row number six, the value of 1.6 Tesla, you will get the related Electric field, approx of 477*10^6 V/m.

    Then if you think (just as mental experiment and it's a large simplification) to be inside a large capacitor having the two plates located at distance d=1 meter, capacitor charged and permanently powered with a voltage of 477 millions of Volt, do you believe that nothing happens to your body and you can stay quietly chatting?

    Let me know if you think that it could be a good idea to verify.
    I don't suggest to you to make this test, it could be the last for you.

    1. this table apply for EMI management. it assume given impedence, and probably a given bandwidth.
      the fact is that static magnetic field cause no real electric field.
      and slowly changing magnetic field induce small electric field.
      You have huge 1T field magnet in wind-turbine, or in many generators, turning at about 50-60-400Hz,and nobody dies around.

      however I agree that an electromagnetic field of 1T changing at 1MHZ may toast all people and devices in a room.

      so we can exclude that hypothesis. on that point we agree.

  13. @Alain Coetmeur

    The "given impedence" is simply the impedence of vacuum/air.
    The "given bandwidth" is a your fantasy/invention.

    I know very well that static magnetic field case, but, even if you continue to say the this is magnetostatic (give me a proof of what you say) because you would not ready the ICC-18 document that I linked many times, THIS IS NOT THE CASE!
    Read the document, DGT are speaking of ElectroMagnetic field.

    About your example is wrong, the high Magnetic field is inside the nucleo not outside the wind-turbine.

    You spoke of 1 MHz only, the high voltage grid lines "just @380kV" (not hundred of millions of Volts) where the frequency is "only 50Hz" are sorround by a high Magnetic field and produce also an Electric field a lot less compared with 500 millions V/m, anyway if stay at 1 meter of distance from them you die.
    How can you explain

  14. P.S.
    Ah, don't tell me "the birds don't die when in contact with a grid line".

    Take one 380kV line, move it at one meter from ground and put yourself between the wire and the groud.
    If you try I can say you by, by even if the frequency is just 50Hz.

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  16. Hey man,

    are you able to read the paper published at ICCF-18?

    If not, remember that DGT claims that they measured 1.6 Tesla 20cm far from the reactor.

    Duration of what?
    Frequency of what?
    Questions unuseful.

  17. "Questions unuseful" Huh? How do you mean?

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  19. If you need this data or think that are important, what are you waiting? Ask directly to DGT. They will be happy to say you some other absurdity.

  20. As a matter of fact, the ultrasonic crusher is sometimes called as the ultrasonic cell grinder that is a use of strong ultrasonic cavitation generated in the liquid. See here: .Meanwhile, this may be multifunctional ultrasonic treatment.