Monday, July 16, 2012


Prologue:My readers know that I am completely and irreversibly dedicated to LENR. I want LENR to be understood and to be used as a significant energy source. For more than 23 long years, when asked about Cold Fusion/LENR, Nature has given us inaudible and incomprehensible answers therefore the field is a cognitive catastrophe. However, its actual chances to be used as an energy source were even worse- due to low intensity, high unreliability and constant ephemerity of the heat effects.
I will never dare to tell openly that, technologically, the Pd-D electrochemical system is a triple-dead horse or that ‘pure’ nanometric systems exhibit too low energy intensity, but I am patiently waiting for somebody to demonstrate the contrary.
Andrea Rossi’s announcements of his invention changed this. The situation became hopeful even though Rossi’s development is too slow, unsure, and tortuous.
However, this time LENR was lucky by the advent of Defkalion Green Technology, a ‘fast’ company with excellent problem solving abilities for engineering, technology, management and business strategy (see: Even on a scientific level, Defkalion will have a lot to offer the community, providing a platform for further theoretical approaches to be developed in the near future.
My relationship with DGTG can be characterized as “empathy from the first e-mail” and they understood my deep sorrow of the unsolved LENR mystery and its delay as an energy source.
They already answered my questions regarding their business strategy and future plans. They also generously helped me to understand the soul and essence of their technology- marching toward commercialization.

I have to confess here that I am lacking a quality that contributes a lot to the invincible charm of the young girls: naiveté. Hence, this total absence of naiveté- helps me to:
a) Understand the difficulty, problems, obstacles, traps, bad surprises of the development work done by DGTG
b) Avoid the unanswerable questions as the nature of their variant of the so called catalyst or pixie dust or even to the extent of their partners and associates
c) Accept that this help is a step-by-step process
d) Be honored, happy and grateful due to this privileged collaboration
e) Use all my residual grey cells to contribute to the understanding of their technology

The Source: Beyond online interviews, I had extensive discussions and e-mail exchanges with Defkalion’s CEO Alex Xanthoulis, CBO Symeon Tsalikoglou and of course their CTO John Hadjichristos. I have also read some internal reports and lab log data sheets. All of which provided me with this first level understanding.

The problem re-defined: 
It is the first time in LENR history that we have a reliable process at a scale sufficient to analyze the product of the LENR reactions (see
Additional tests analyzed by X-ray Fluorescence spectroscopy and inductively coupled mass spectrometry and other methods allow us to KNOW what happens!
These analyses will show if Defkalion’s technology is somewhat similar to the best currently known LENR technology- Piantelli is based, as we know, on nanostructured Ni, deep degassing and special triggering methods- or not.

Short and somewhat lacunary description of Defkalion’s Technology:
For the time being, we still do not have the best proportion of the data, information, knowledge and wisdom (understanding) of Defkalion’s process; but this will soon change.
Defkalion technology uses Ni powder, seemingly normal micrometric probably treated in some way prior of use, proprietary additives and an original triggering method. They consider that 4 out of the 5 isotopes of Nickel are participating in the process.
Actually there are 3 main domains of working inner temperatures, typically low (185 C), medium (300 C) and high (550C). There have been indications as discussed about even higher temperatures reaching well over 650C, although it seems that too high temperatures generate some problems with material failures or runaways.
There is great room for future developments and applications. The open problem is if the reaction mechanisms do change in this broad range of temperatures.
Pressurized Hydrogen, up to 5 bars, is used as reactant and the essential clue is to separate molecular Hydrogen (inactive!) in atomic Hydrogen by using electric energy.
The reaction chamber is made of stainless steel 316 and the walls are surrounded by flow channels. Defkalion uses organic heat transfer agents.
It is important to understand their definition that the process is a dynamic system of the multi-stage set of reactions.
In the same time I hope that you will realize the idea that LENR Science knows one barrier (Coulomb’s) while LENR Technology knows more barriers. This is where you will appreciate the efforts and creativity of our Greek colleagues.
Prior to triggering (or part of it) Ni has to be heated up to 500 C in the case of the high temperature process. Triggering per se is a process in three stages:

Stage 1: Separate H2 in H (diatomic to monoatomic) - this is an endothermic process;
Stage II: Force Stage I some way the hydrogen atom in a more neutral form, similar to a virtual neutron able to penetrate the Coulomb Barrier;
Stage III: The Ni-H reaction of transmutation generates gamma radiation that is thermalized in infrared photons- heat- by the mechanism described by the Widom-Larsen theory- see the papers and the patent US 7,893, 414.

Personal note: 
The entire process looks very much like Widom_Larsen but with additional points. I have discussed this subject thoroughly with the DGTG friends- as the results of the spectral and chemical analyses will come in. This is not a reason for despair for LENR theorists because Defkalion’s LENR process actually has differences that will be discussed later.

Continuing: In actual practice the initial heating to the necessary start temperature, say 300 to 500 C is performed with a tungsten heater, than Stage I is attained by firing a special spark-plug working at a high voltage and some proprietary optimal frequency.
Once Stage I is finished no more heating is necessary (this was different at Rossi!). During Stage II the frequency of firing of the sparkplugs determines the heat level. The energy consumed by one sparking is rather low- say 1.2 J.
If the reaction has started and Hydrogen is not leaking out, the reaction will be sustained for months; there had been some tests with the duration of 4-5 months and others are in work.
The reaction through this multi stage dynamic process can be easily controlled (stopped) through the control of the excitement of the Hydrogen itself.

Radiation measurements:The experimental situation is excellent: no dangerous radiation!
However, there is some radiation emitted. I have seen a lot of measurements performed both with NaI spectrometer and Geiger Muller counter and all confirm that a somewhat higher level appears only at triggering. The gammas have a relatively low energy, 50-300 keV. The maximum levels are under those internationally admissible. Is this a proof that the W-L mechanism (gammas converted to IR photons - is true and at work? We will see it soon.

Other data:The development of this technology is kind of a discovery process. Prior experience and transfer of know-how from neighboring technologies is of very limited use. There were some sporadic runaway experiments. Defkalion’s engineers have learned how to better control the reaction- a very steep learning curve.
Defkalion collaborates with leading companies and international entities where both controls, methodologies, machinery and know-how have provided them with invaluable and time saving advantages. The essence of collaboration for Defkalion is key and their fast progress shows this.
In my next writing about Defkalion, I will tell about heat generation- both bare reactor tests and calorimetric measurements. As told, the thermal power of the reactors is controlled basically by the firing rate of the sparkplugs’ firing rate and the frequency of these.

Conclusions:For the first time in LENR history, thanks also to Defkalion’s contributions and progress, we are on the way to understanding the Know-What, the Know-How and even the Know-Why of this viable, powerful energy source.



  1. Thanks for sharing Peter, waiting for (II).

    1. Thanks- real LENR is extremely complex and rich in phenomena and in possibilities!
      (II) will come soon.

    2. Dear Brokers,
      What can I do for you? And vice-versa?

  2. 50eV - 300 eV is not compatible with WL theory. Those are in the extreme UV and this is the frequency where matter most efficiently absorbs photons and it's 4 orders of magnitude above thermal photons.

    WL is not unique in predicting neutral entities. Akito's TSC is also neutral, altough very briefly. There is a chance, though, that for H, instead of D, it lasts for longer given that he does not take relativistic corrections when the TSC gets in the order of the nuclear range.

    It could be that the TSC drifts towards one of the nearby nickels.

    1. Is it 50-300eV (e-UV/x-ray) or rather 50-300keV (more X-ray/gamma...) ?

    2. If the word gamma is used, it should mean about 100keV ? 100eV is just extreme-UV ? and detecting them out of the reactor will be hard.

      however 30kEV is still X-ray (hard) ?

      am I wrong?

  3. Dear Daniel, I think these are tamed down gammas- few residual ones.
    The tramsmutation results that will be published probably at ICCF-17
    will be very useful to give the answers. But perhaps it is not an "or/or" problem, different effects can coexist. Mother Nature has a
    strong Alpha character.

    1. That WL theory does not make sense. I'd rather think that the effect happens at nuclear level, due an antithesis between 2 body nuclear forces, which tends to the shell model, and 3 body forces, which tends to the formation of cluster. This struggle causes slow coalescing between the nuclei of the TSC and Ni,which leads to the ondulating states of the nucleus, which breaks the very large energy differences, to smaller ones.

  4. Peter,
    What power level are we talking about? Miliwatt range, watt range, kilowatt range?

    1. Kilowatts, bien sur! for some smaller devices, hundred of watts. Pre-commercial, not toys

    2. Thx, I am curious for your next update.

  5. Very interesting, thanks! Hopefully in the end all the upcoming information will be enough to allow sufficiently skilled people and researchers (or even school labs, see Athanor) to replicate "basic", low gain versions of DGTG's Ni-H LENR reactors.

    1. Hope the people were able to try those solution from the research papers.
      If not already public in articles, I imagine there is a patent pending.

      I resume:
      heat, break H2 (spark, actalyst), let the reaction happens at 5bar with nanopowder...

      the only information is that not much more is needed, except some ingeniosity, industrial methodology and hard work.

      the recipe is old and expected.

    2. Just a remark- nor Rossi, neither DGTG has NANOpowder Ni.


    3. It this because nanopowders aren't really needed for high energy gain, or because there technological/engineering constraints preventing their use in devices intended for mass-production? (example: nanoparticle self-aggregation)

    4. Nanopowders are an other solution. Using of them limits the maximum working temperatue at say 400C, above this the nanostructures are destroyed. but you are right, it is also not easy to work with nanopowders.

  6. So the forums didn't work out as expected and you Peter are the new DGTG PR outlet? Interesting. Much easier to manage of course.

    1. What I am writing is my own opinion- see my other writings.
      I am not working for them, I respect their work and mode of thinking. I am a 75 years old independent technologist researcher and a veteran CF/LENR fighter.
      Re the Forum- it was noisy and crowded with kibitzes.

  7. Well, thanks to Defkalion for copying Rossi's work.
    Now I hope lots of companies will copy Defkalion's too.

    1. Thanks to the scientist that Rossi get inspiration from 8-) ...

      I laugh when Apple moan that Microsoft copied from Macintosh... everybody copied from Xerox PARC, from CERN, from DEC...

      there will be room for everybody, since this is an exploding market. Consolidation will came later, but DGT and Rossi will be enough rich to have fun for some years.

    2. "Thanks to the scientist that Rossi get inspiration from 8-) ..."

      That would be Piantelli...

      And the anonymous poster is obiously trolling you shouldnt be feeding him.

    3. Piantelli? Piantelli haven't got an operating device for sell.
      BTW "getting inspiration" is very different from copying.

  8. Dear Peter Gluck

    What gives you so much confidence in Defkalion? I have not seen anything that could convince me they have a LENR reactor close to commercialization.

    Even if they did, I cannot imagine that anyone could come up with their own LENR technology in just a few months. If they have anything, it's likely to be a copycat of Rossi's technology.

    Whether Defkalion is worthy of respect remains to be seen in my opinion.

    1. Let's wait together and come back when you will decide. Just give code by which I could recognize you from the great Anonymous Family. They are really very skilled in what was
      necessary to develop the system, I am very positively impressed.
      First class experts in enginewering problem solving. You will see this at ICCF-17, first.

    2. I'm the same person posting as AB on other LENR related sites.

    3. I'm posting as AB on other sites.

      While I would be happy if Defkalion shows a working product, I cannot help but view the Hyperion as the result of plagiarism.

    4. AB
      At least you of the anon crew, are willing to admit to an emotional view vs the historic facts on record. I certainly appreciate you identifying yourself.

      Cheers & thanks

      D Marker

  9. Anonymous: I agree. Defkalion admitted stealing from Rossi. Huge legal battle will ensue if and when Defkalion sells a LENR devise.

    1. first idea cannot be stolen.
      second if it is public, like in science article, it is not stolen.

      finally I don't see what there is new in that, except the work to industrialize what previous scientist have just tested.

      maybe the only trick of rossi, is that there is no trick, just H2 dissociating catalyst, as anyone would have imagined (hard to patent).

    2. Bernie

      Go look at anonymous's link here (the same one I posted weeks back to prove the 'stole' claim is twisting the facts)

      There is nothing in it that says "We copied or stole Rossi's ecat" in fact it says the opposite.

      What is stated is "we know what happens in Rossi's reactor" and I would contend that a lot of people knew what happened in Rossi's eCat reactor back then.

      The other significant point that gets twisted repeatedly is that DGTG said they are aware of what another organisation did in analysing Rossi's ecat. They state quite clearly that it was not them who did it.

      So how can anyone read that link & make the claim DGT said "we stole it" ? It is false !.


      D Marker

    3. - DGT: "Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially"

      How did they find the "formula of Rossi"? Rossi told them about the formula? They understood the formula by simply watching the copper tube with the core inside? God in person told them about the formula?
      Why they didn't say it officially? Maybe they hoped Mats Lewan wouldn't had reported that sentence?

      - DGT: "My scientists found a way to make it"

      Well, before or after they had the "formula of Rossi"?

      - DGT: "I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything ... They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did"

      It sounds like someone deceived Rossi during a test, a measurement or something like that. Do you remember Celani during the January 2011 test? It seems something similar.
      Defkalion never explained the sentence "They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did". Do you have a simple and credible explanation for that?

    4. Anonymous

      You said "DGT: "I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything ... They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did"

      Who is 'they' in the "they tried his reactor" - DGT is not the 'they' you quote (which really is quite out of context). Those words appear to imply that the 'they' is DGT which is quite false. So if we go back & reread the interview you will see that 'they' is likely to be the University of Padua.

      DGT already said in the Lewan interview that University of Padua did some sort of analysis of an eCat (ash ?). Nowhere does DGT claim ever that they (DGT) did any such analysis of an eCat. Rossi also states repeatedly and emphatically that he never let DGT anywhere near one.

      Point I am making is the claim or implied claim that DGT say they stole or copied an eCat is simply fallacious (even malicious) & based on some people twisting a garbled interview DGT did with Mats Lewan of NyTeknik & are then inaccurately quoting from it.

      Many people knew much of what Rossi had in his eCat. They only had to start with the same documents Rossi did. That was Piantelli's 1995 patent which lapsed when Piantelli failed to pay his fees.

      So what I see is people 'cherry picking' words from the Mats Lewan interview such as to distort the interview to mean something quite different.


      D Marker

    5. Well. So let's _copy/paste_ the whole interview (the part when Xanthoulis speaks):

      “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”

      That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011.

      “I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of [] Padua. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued."

      Did "They" (the university of Padua) make the deceive and then gave the informations to DGT? Do I have to understand in this way the sentence?
      What does it mean "they tried his reactor without him understanding what they did"? Can you explain this sentence? Xanthoulis' words are not equivocal:

      they [who? UniPd?] tried his [Rossi's] reactor without him [Rossi] understanding what they did.

      i.e. someone did something being careful to not arouse Rossi's suspicious.

      When you do some analysis on the burned nickel powder, you don't need to "try the reactor". Something happened while the reactor was working.

      I say more: DGT already developed his reactor (independently from Rossi) when the contract with Rossi was far from being withdrawn. They worked independently and used the 48hours test as an excuse to get rid of Rossi without pay him (at that moment they already known that the Hyperion could be run without Rossi). They didn't share any information about their work with Rossi (the partner). They acted like ... snakes (strange, but a word that better explains a kind of behavior like this it's hard to find, but maybe this is only due to my poor English).

    6. Anonymous

      Firstly the interview was a translation so you need to be very careful what you deduce from it and as you can clearly see refers to Uni of Padua doing some test.

      So how are you able to turn that translated & garbled sentence into DGT "stole/copied". You can't unless you invent that opinion & IMHO that is what you are doing. Inventing it !. DGT never said it. They only ever said they know what was going on in Rossi's reactor & Rossi repeatedly says they don't.

      D Marker

    7. Anonymous

      ALSO ...

      You go even further with your personal speculation in the below para but all that shows in any meaningful way that you have a bias against DGT.

      You are adding speculation to guesswork & creating a 'story' that suits how you feel about it all. There is no convincing evidence or substance in support of your POV, just personal speculation. Doing that in itself is no issue but if people use speculation to publicly slander people, such as calling them admitted thieves, when the facts do not back it up, that is just not very good nor honest.

      I say more: DGT already developed his reactor (independently from Rossi) when the contract with Rossi was far from being withdrawn. They worked independently and used the 48hours test as an excuse to get rid of Rossi without pay him (at that moment they already known that the Hyperion could be run without Rossi). They didn't share any information about their work with Rossi (the partner). They acted like ... snakes (strange, but a word that better explains a kind of behavior like this it's hard to find, but maybe this is only due to my poor English).

      PS I thought Krivit was the 'snake' & DGT the chatterers (according to Rossi !). Charming :) !.

      D Marker

  10. @Barnie

    Rossi admitted that there was nothing to steal from DGT! (as far as I can recall he said several times through his blog that he has never revealed anything to DGT during their co-operation)
    And this must be true, if Peter is accurate on what he reports above!
    If Rossi gets a valid international patent, which he has failed so far, he can drive this race. In any other case, his horses (if any left) an on hold. Or dead already.

    1. Do you remember what Xanthoulis said to Mats Lewan?
      "They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did. They checked it and we know what’s in the reactor."
      All registered by Lewan in the "Excerpt of Ny Teknik’s conversation with Alexandros Xanthoulis August 5"!
      Defkalion copied the device, that's all.

    2. Knowing what is inside is not stealing.
      It is only if this is an innovation.

    3. You will see in the future that actually The 2 generators
      E-cat (any sort) and Hyperion are different and DGTG's solution is patentable. Please answer only if you have facts.

    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    5. @ AlainCo
      You said "Knowing what is inside is not stealing", but they made the analysis "without him understanding what they did" with only one purpose: to copy the device.

    6. Anonymous

      That is simply not what was said. Can you post the link to prove you are not fabricating an opinion ?.

      If you want to persist in the 'stolen' slander please offer proof because I have already posted here before what was actually said to Matts Lewan & it is not what you are claiming. Becaue you are posting anonymously says much about your motives & lack of real proof.


      D Marker

    7. Peter Gluck: My prior post was removed because I simply asked you for proof. It is really not necessary, because on Defkalion's own website, in the slide show presentation that can be downloaded Defkalion says, with a picture of Andrea Rossi, "Innovating energy products based on Andrea Rossi e-cat."

    8. It's been quite sometime since I read it & don't care to spend hours looking for it.

      But if I recall correctly, DGT did state that they had copied the E-cat & were aware of exactly what was going on inside by being privy of Scans preformed on it at the University.

      But I also seem to recall that they were going to design their own system different from his. So basically they used Rossi's design to short cut research for their own purposes.

      I don't know that this would hold up in court as infringement. We see products everyday that are very similar but aren't considered infringement. Although one entity tried to patent the Rectangular shape of it's product.

      As for Rossi's secret sauce, know one ever stated that it was an actual physical ingredient that I'm aware of. I've speculated before that it could just be a specific electrical frequency.
      Something I think was stated here to that affect also.

    9. Its easy

      Check the link supplied (twice here) - extract the claim where they say the stole or copied it (not anyone's opinion - just the claims they made) then report it back.


      D Marker

  11. Why are we discussing the anonymous troll fud?

    Peter give some really nice insigths, dont loose the focus.

    1. My problem is that I am polite; but you are right, I have just deleted an aggressive comment

  12. Hello Mr. Gluck,

    Thanks for posting the info. As far as I am concerned, I don't care who developes what first as long as the technology breaks out. I think deep down this is why Rossi and others should not be concerned with anyone else getting into developing the technology. The competition is great sign.

    1. Thank you for not belonging to the Anonymous family gang. Sometimes patience is a part of the solution; the creation of such a new disruptive technology is a difficult job, on many levels,something very complex. development is science, art and an ordeal.

  13. Dear Peter Gluck,

    Thank for providing this information in such an eloquent and informative manner. Defkalion should retain you in some fashion because in the very near future they will be swamped with information requests! I have to admit I have very strong doubts about Defkalion's claims but I am waiting patiently for ICCF-17. Your well-balanced interviews and essays only serve to heighten this anticipation.

    1. Thank you! The product of DGTG is an energy generator but
      they had also created valuable information - new info for the LENR field that was in trouble for 23 years. As I told, now we get the possibility to UNDERSTAND LENR and to stop sterile speculations.

  14. Brian Ahern

    I am announcing the nanonickel breakthrough at the New Energy Symposium in NYC on Wednesday.

    I am saying the energy is real, repeatable and of useful output. I will also state that it is not of nuclear origin. I will say that it is a manifestation of asymmetric magnetism.

    This explains the lack of radiation accompanying my 21 watts of thermal excess power.

    Defkalion is getting even better results and others around the world are as well.

    The energy landscape is going to change in a viral manner

    1. Thanks for the information. This is a link to the New Energy Symposium 2012 website:

      It doesn't seem there will be video streams of the event or more information through the website. For some reason they also forgot to include you in the speakers list.

      Will you provide on the Internet more information about your announcement after it will be made at NES-2012 ?

  15. Peter

    Once again than you for sharing your insights. Again you raise my confidence that something may be happening with LENR.

    Your assessment of their professionalism means a lot.


    Doug Marker

  16. I agree LENR tech will come soon.

    But Defkalion is NOTHING!

    They cannot provide a single witness that has ever seen one of their products except Sterling Allen who posed with the same green machine we saw in their faked specc sheet.

    Defkalion openly lied abut testing hundreds of units, and there is still chat about it on their now defunct forums.

    This is surprising as their forums were heavily edited. I had my forum acct there deleted when I asked if any living person could vouch that they were more than flapping gums.

    Defkalion has pretended to hire people over their website face so people believe they are actually doing something. I'd advise anyone considering investing with them to think again.
    A common ploy among mining companies is to pretend you found a great gold vein, and then when the shares go through the roof you sell off and short shares. I think defkalion is a few guys who got kicked off Andrea Rossis boat and decided they could still cash in off the hype like Blacklight.

    Name ONE person who has EVER seen a Defkalion product in real life (aside from Sterling Allen), and I will retract this entire statement.

    Defkalion is Nothing but YAP, YAP, YAP. Wish they would shut-up.

    I am not arguing against LENR as that would be stupid as LENR is confirmed worldwide. I am saying Defkalion is a non-entity in this field.

    1. Anon

      Anon said "Defkalion is Nothing but YAP, YAP, YAP"
      but I thought they stopped saying anything ?. Perhaps that is what really is distressing you ?

      But I agree with you that we all want to see someone come up with something that matches the expectation that has been set.

      Cheers D Marker

    2. They stopped their forum, but they still post "jobs" on their website. I think they are a investment scam front based on their previous lies and the fact they have not ever shown anything real.

      Now it appears Brian Ahern believes they are ahead of him so I have my doubts. Brian Ahern deserves everyones respect so I am close to reversing my decision based on his view alone.

  17. Mr. Peter Gluck

    I always find it interesting to read what others around the world are saying in relation to current topics. That is because we always filter what we read though, through the glasses of our understanding based on our particular country where we live, our upbringing, and our education.

    In relation to Defkalion Green it might be helpful for everyone to go back and re-live those moments in June 2011. DefkalionGreenTech uploaded on Jul 6, 2011, the original 9 part video of the June 23, 2011 press conference in Greece.

    Defkalion Green Technologies Press Conference Part 1

    Just about one month after this press conference on August 4th, 2011 the breakup was announced.

    I just have a couple of questions.
    Would you please ask your Defkalion friends to post an English translation version of the June 23, 2011 press conference up on YouTube for the benefit of most of the rest of the world?

    The rumors of the cause of the breakup were based on 2 scenarios:
    a) Rossi never was able to produce a working e-cat that passed a 3rd party test, (or 48 hour endurance test) so Defkalion never paid him, therefore the cancellation of the contract.
    b) The other speculation was that Rossi had the goods, but Defkalion could not raise the needed money as per the contract.

    Please tell us, and if you don't know, please ask your Defkalion friends, which of the reasons a or b is correct? Or is there another reason for the breakup?

    Explaining the real reasons for the breakup, and putting to rest the never resolved speculations, would go a long way for Defkalion to re-establish some credibility.

    Gary Wright

    1. Gary Wright

      Hasn't it sunk in yet that Peter Gluck doesn't work for DGTG nor was he working for them when the breakup occurred. So, surely it is up to you to go ask DGTG your questions & not to hound other bloggers with your repeatedly intrusive & inappropriately aggressive plus demanding questioning.


      Doug Marker

    2. Gary,
      Let's not have that Rossi discussion here. Of course, Mr Gluck can do whit his site what he wants, but there are enough forums that are busy with that topic. I think Gary, you manage one yourself. Let's concentrate here to the question whether DGT has something, and what that is. And perhaps how these claims can be validated.

  18. Dear Peter Gluck

    You wrote:
    You will see in the future that actually The 2 generators E-cat (any sort) and Hyperion are different and DGTG's solution is patentable. Please answer only if you have facts.

    Are you saying that you know for a fact that Rossi's method is not patentable while Defkalion's is? This would imply that both are real.

    How did you obtain this information?

    Apologies if it's been posted before, I only started reading this blog recently.


  19. Fact that Defkalion technology is different from Rossi is visible from these symptoms:
    - start time in minutes versus hours
    - input power 200-310 Watt versus kW
    - CoP far higher then 6

    Something as different as single action steam engine versus triple action steam engine, however both use steam.

    1. Thank you for your positive approach and contribution.
      Vive la difference!

    2. "- start time in minutes versus hours"
      Maybe yes, maybe no, who knows? Did you see any video of a functioning Hyperion?

      "- input power 200-310 Watt versus kW"
      Maybe yes, maybe no, who knows? Do you have independent informations?

      "- CoP far higher then 6"
      they are still performing flow calorimetry tests, so how can you know the real COP?

  20. Go to Defkalion site:

    Go to "Press Releases"

    Scroll down to "Presentation 23/6/2011"

    Slide 17

    This slide shows a picture of Andrea Rossi with the headline, "Innovative energy products based on Andrea Rossi e-cat."

    1. Yes, but this was before Rossi and Dekalion "broke-up" in August, supposedly because of stability problems. Also, there are a number of claims that Rossi was using Defkalion-developed technology (new flat-cat design? rf stimulus?) in some of his demonstrations. This makes sense because until August they were collaborating.
      Now, as I understand it Defkalion claims that their Hyperion design is different from Rossi's and they are filing for patents. Certainly, their temperature, stability control, and COP seem to be better than Rossi's, at least until his most recent high-temperature e-Cat claims.

      As a scientist, I am more interested in the process than in who claims what. My guess is that Piantelli also deserves some credit (e.g. Rossi 'stole' from Piantelli and then added a crucial ingredient). But this can all be sorted out via patents, lawyers, etc. What interests me (in addition to their superior COP) is that Defkalion seems to be far more professional and less withholding of detailed scientific information than Rossi. I salute them on their willingness to release the information they have released so far, and look forward to more details. (If they have nothing - which I don't think is the case - then obviously this information is irrelevant.) I also salute Peter Gluck for providing us with an 'inside look' and look forward to his future reports.

      P.S. There seems to be a generic two-pronged attack on anyone such as Rossi or Defkalion who makes a claim:
      (a) "you are just talking, it's just words, you're a scam'
      (b) "you stole the technology from whoever"
      The two "attacks" are obviously inconsistent.
      A similar style of attack on "cold-fusion" or LENR in general is:
      (a) "this violates known science so it's impossible"
      (b) "even if it's possible, the effect is too weak to care" (even though it would have tremendous scientific implications

    2. Anonymous: There is a lot of evidence that Rossi was developing the E-Cat in the 1990's. I can find no such evidence that Defkalion was even thinking of LENR during this period, can you? I guess I am sensitive to inventors being ripped off. I think we have to be sensitive, because our free enterprise system is based, to a great degree, on the protection of intellectual property.

    3. Bernie,In interviews both Andrea Rossi and Prof Focardi stated that they had not built an eCat until late 2007. He was concerned about the radiation & he approached Prof Focardi in mid 2007 & presented to him his ideas (not a physical device). Focardi's role was to ensure that when they built it they would not be harmed by radiation. They built the 1st 'modern' eCat in Oct 2007 in Rossi's Bondino factory (near Ferrara). 1st they experimented with a range of mixes & strucures of powder.

      Can you show any links to statements by either Andrea Rossi or Prof Focardi that Rossi was building ecats before 2007 ?. There are certainly statements that Rossi was interested in Cold Fusion from 1989 as many of us were & remain.

      The claim of ecats before 2007 contradicts their early interviews although several interviewers have made leaps of faith & misinterpreted some statements from Andrea Rossi. Tellingly Rossi never states directly that he built eCats before 3007.


      D Marker

    4. Bernie

      Also re that slide. Are you not aware that Defkalion was founded to sell 'hyperion' generic devices using Rossi's eCat as the core !. Most of us following this story know this.

      I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with that slide. It is merely a statement of fact from their relationship at the time. Truth is Rossi didn't come up with a stable 10KW ecat & DGT had to either shut up shop or find another source of reactor cores.

      What appears to be the case now is they (starting with Piantelli's published research) built a reactor just exactly as Rossi did (using Piantelli's published research). But there is some evidence (yet to be confirmed) that DGT began experimenting with metals other than Ni.

      Rossi did not invent Ni+H reactors. It is well known that Piantelli did & Focardi was one of his associates in that work.


      D Marker

    5. What does that slide mean to me? In my opinion, Defkalion is trying to market a LENR devise based on Andrea Rossi intellectual property, without compensating Andrea Rossi for his intellectual property. They state in this slide presentation the Defkalion LENR product is based on the Rossi innovation called the E-cat. Fast forward one year, the Rossi/Defkalion relationship has dissolved. Defkalion has admitted they copied the Rossi E-Cat. They obviously did this deceitful act of copying the intellectual property of Mr. Rossi before the contract was cancelled and while pretending to be an honest business partner of Mr. Rossi. Defkalion wants me to believe that in one year, they have not used the intellectual property of Mr. Rossi and have created their own Lenr devise. Good luck selling that to a jury.

    6. This comment is based on pure speculation, but which does not appear to be supported by the facts. In fact, the differences between Rossi's Italian patent and the Hyperion as it is described are crucial and numerous. Moreover, Rossi's Italian patent does not provide sufficient information for a "practitioner skilled in the art" to replicate and so is not enforceable. You should ask yourself why that is the case? Finally, Defkalion have stated that there are numerous novel aspects to their Hyperion for which they will be applying for patents (see Peter Gluck's earlier "Business" interview with Defkalion). Assuming these patents are granted then these novel aspects will be part of their intellectual property.

    7. Anonymous and/or dsjm1: "Defkalion stated" doesn't cut it any more after this deceitful act: Mat Lewan contacted Mr. Alexandros Xanthoulis President of Defkalion one day after Rossi canceled their contract for non payment, Xanthoulis stated: “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months. I know what he’s (Rossi) got into the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena Padua (…) They tried his (Rossi”s) reactor without him (Rossi) Understanding what they did.” If I were Rossi's attorney that statement would bring a huge smile to my face.

    8. Bernie
      I would contend that knowing what goes on in a reactor and saying "I stole it" are worlds apart.

      Your position seems to be shifting from the original claim or imputation that DGT said "we stole it" to saying "we know what goes on in it".

      How is that going to bring a smile to the face of a lawyer.

      Piantelli could just have easily said he believed he knew what was going on in Rossi's reactor.

      I see your comments as reading far more into the words than I believe any lawyer would.

      But at least you have hopefully clarified for other posters what was actually said by DGT vs the often repeated fallacy that DGT 'admitted' "we copied / stole" it.


      D Marker

  21. Ok best answer. Who cares about the “science” behind any of these claims.
    Can anyone deliver the goods?
    Has anyone ever ever delivered on the promise of cold fusion LENR on real cost effective basis? In other words MONEY out is greater than MONEY in?
    Rossi and his Ecat so far HAS NOT delivered the goods.
    No real customer has ever gotten their hands on one.
    What is to make of that?
    That is the question. Is it a scam?
    I think that the answer to that will be for each person to judge. How many years are you going to wait before a Rossi Ecat is sold not only to a “real customer” but to more than one “real” customers?
    So far no goods have been delivered.
    My guess is some people will call it a scam 6 months from now, some a year, some two years etc.
    Who cares about MIT, National Instruments etc. Where is the working, produced and sold Ecat?
    That is why I say my “best answer” IS NOT TO LISTEN TO PROMISES BUT WAIT FOR THE REAL DEAL!
    As long as the Rossi Ecat remains an unfulfilled promise speculation as to its relevance, effectivity and conspiracy theories will thrive.
    Deliver the goods Mr Rossi!

    1. What is funny is how even the most optimistic believer in LENR is overly afraid of false data, scam and so on.
      Stockholm syndrome?

      LENR is not extraordinary if you look at it without theory prejudice (on both side). Experiments were criticized at first, some might be bad, but then the protocol start to be repeatable and stable. condition get be be understood. Today PdD electrolysis give hard to tune but repeatable LENR. End of reasonable doubt. Closed File.

      NiH at high-temp was initiated by Nasa GRC in 89, then many results get obtained, yet less than with PdD electrolysis. Celani, Piantelli, Focardi, obtained good results, some with density around kW per gram of reactant (cf Celani...).

      That someone pretend to have transformed a short term stable reaction at 300C with NiZrO+H of few kW/g, into a reactor of a few kW, containing 10g of reactant, that is unstable, is quite natural. that the recipe is different (no ZrO, some catalyst) is new data, but if it was a scam it would claim the same wining recipe as Celani, not a new one. So Occam Razor say, that it is probably real, and improbably a fake.

      That a company with big budget seeing that it work, propose a partnership is expected. That when they observe an incompetent engineer, unable to work in team, unwilling to accept help and share data, unable to use well know engineering techniques to stabilize the reactor, they get to doubt... expected. that they try to do themselves, reading papers like any engineer learn in school, expected.
      That they succeed more quickly with a team of 20, is expected. that they decide to run alone, expected!

      that they try to play on Web2.0, could be attributed to Hubris. that they stop playing with Web2.0 can be put on final understanding it was stupid. This is the most dubious fact about DGT story. I put it all on human factor.

      that they reactor use only 5bar hydrogen, mean it is not that hard.
      That there reactor use spark to heat and dissociate H2, is a good classic idea.
      That there is a catalyst that dissociate H2, is expected too.
      That there is another non dissociation catalyst, is possible . That it is not a one already quoted in a scientific paper is possible but improbable. That they copy the one of their initial partner is quite stupid and risky.
      That it is stable is not surprising since today's engineering know how to control chaotic process (by the way, National Instruments sell tools and methods to do that).
      That a gang of confirm month after month that it work, give details, show ugly photo, is not so compatible with a scam, but with self-confidence.
      That they hide some problems is expected. that they corner themselves many times with claims, is acceptable for a pathologic individual liar, but not for a complex company. Company can lie, but more with silence and dodge.

      After that you can doubt on the sun to rise tomorrow, or on Apple to produce another iPhone next year, but we have to be rational, and stop being afraid of our shadow.

      LENR is science, classic science, old phenomenological science. the world around have been crazy, but real science and old engineering have finally won against psychiatry.
      Defkalion is simple industry, capitalist industry, with a board of director not different from oil or electric company.
      Rossi was a man alone, but now it seems he have a team too.
      We should get away from Arkam Asylum, and think as usual.
      There can be problem, as with any product.
      I'm much more concerned on more consensual industrial and scientific subjects.
      Anyway if I'm sure there will be something out in the next 12 month, I just expect it to be on the 13th of August.
      About iPhone 6, I don't care.

  22. By the way, does anybody have data about latest Defkalion mail, about they may quit Greece, because partners are afraid.

    1. I hope this is not an excuse to delay publishing results, data etc.

    2. This indeed raises red flags. But is the email really authentic? Could Peter Gluck confirm?

    3. Actually the roots of DGTG are in Cyprus. I have not heard about this story till now, but I will ask my friends.

    4. Any news on this issue Peter ?

    5. I have asked them today. I think in any case, they have
      some decisions to take and will let me, the public after that, If they move (if) that lasts more time- days weeks.
      I am phoning them only for important urgent scientific and technical issues.
      ASAP I know something for sure I will let you know.

  23. Noo long post deleted by mistake by me!!! Anyway short and rude: have you ever seen the stuff working? If not any plan ( or DFK invitations) to do so? Thanks for your passion on this topic !!!!

    1. Dear GPT: due to circumstances beyond my control, I have to postpone my explanations/demos for your issue- but I will try to give it as soon as possible.

  24. Dear GPt, Sorry for your self-deleted post. The question is not rude
    of all_ I have not seen myself the tests- unfortunately I have very weak eyes (left blind, right with cataract surgery too risky, all I see well is this monitor)The DGTG have invited me to the lab(s)but I could not go. However people in which I have perfect trusthave seen/made the tests and the results are good.
    Add that the DGTG techno-story as I know it, is consistent, has internal logic.
    Please ask me again next Wednesday.

    1. Dear Mr. Gluck,
      I had both eyes very weak for all life.
      I was waiting until technology advanced and some 6th or 7th generation of VISX laser conducted by operators team with 7000 operations experience at Prague UVN (Central Military Hospital) bring 105% results. Without googles life is sweet. Maybe You may consider these tech for your eye(s).

    2. Thank you very much; in my town Cluj (Romania) there are
      also very good ophtalmologists. If the situation becomes critical I will go to the clinic. However at 75 years, my history in chemical industry, hypertension etc. I am not very convinced that such an investment would be reasonable and fair.
      Thank you again for your care!

  25. Thanks to you for your clear and honest answer. See you on... Next Wednesday ;)

    1. Dear GPT
      It will last a bit more, sorry, due to some unexpected events.
      Sometimes life is too interesting.

    2. Dear Peter,
      tnks for your note. Any idea about the new schedule for your update?
      I'm sure a lot of people is quite interested in the topic :)


    3. I second that GTP!!!

  26. A bit of patience, please take in consideration that I am suffering
    of Cassandra Syndrome.

    1. Dear Mr Gluck, if you want to understand your Casandra Syndrome, you can read that article

      but probably you don't have time to, and I'm very glad of it (assuming it is good news).
      Best regards

  27. I have heard that DGTG will be relocating, possibly to Vancouver Canada.

    This comes as no surprise allowing for the misfortunes of the Greek economy and the potential for the Drachma to be reinstated as the Greek currency.

    Unfortunate, but understandable.

    D Marker

  28. Dsm, that rumour is indeed all over the forums, and mr Gluck might be the source of it. I think a reaction of him on a forum is the source. I was however pleasently surprised that it seems that DGT will make an appearance in Korea nonetheless. I guess we have to await their presentation unless mr Gluck can give us a sneak previeuw...

    1. Dear Bettingman: First this is no rumour, it is a fact: yesterday the DGTG team has travelled to Canada in order to continue work, research, development and Business in a safer and better environment than Greece. Unfortunately this became necessary. Soon we will know the exact location and contact address.
      Second "mr" is not in accordance with the Netiquette, cal me Peter and feel free to write me to
      if you have questions etc.
      Relocation is not easy so I will not bother my friends; I know that as soon as it will possible they will give good info to us all.

    2. Peter it is then. I am in Greece at the moment and suffert 5 power black outs in a few days. Perhaps Greece is indeed not the best place to start a business nowadays. I do hope that DGT will be able to publish independent testresults soon. This can establish credibility for them.

    3. World Wide Business as DGTG has to do, needs, inter alia
      a reliable banking system and both Greece and Cyprus do not have this. Please follow how DGTG will demonstrate that it deserves more than credibility.

  29. Bitter end consequences of unscrupulous conducting of "private rights" and "private business":

    Have business companies and inventors law rights to hide, secure, cover and masking their business, inventions and R&D ? Yes, sure.
    What would be looking world in case where Rudolf Diesel and Otto hide their IC engines for period "until we solve problems with carburettors / injection pumps, valve timing etc." ? Something different and delayed for sure.

    What is positive differential of profit for Defkalion GT, if they will for another X/XX months hide, cover their real capacity and test data out from whole world knowledge ?
    In reality this is not clear, maybe plus something hundreds millions of dollars of more profit. They will in secret mode until they will have finished (new / newly located) manufacture capacity.

    What is the whole world / whole society cost of this sort of delaying of publishing clear statement and test data ?

    It cost world around 9-10 BILLIONS dollars EVERY day in these two main categories:

    A) Totally wrong allocation of sources (around 2-3,5 billions
    dollars per day)

    B) Difference between fair price of fuel/energy and today artificially inflated fossil sources price bubble (around 6-6,5 billions dollars difference per day)

    point B) is something arguable, so come to point A)

    This is gargantuan titanic error/wrong allocation of hardware / building investment in hundreds of soon to be obsolete coal powerplants, transmission lines, new project works, design works, myriads of soon illogical building thermal insulation etc. etc. In sum around 3 billions dollars in erroneous real economy "hard" investment (allocation of sources) EVERY DAY.

    Another 2 months of delays (for puprose of maximalization of profit of lovely company Defkalion) may bring some millions of positive difference of excess profit for these private interests and as contrary another 550-600 BILLIONS of dollars of wasted precious sources of whole humankind of whole Planet Earth.

    As small note: these 600 billions dollars are exactly equivalent of capital needs for total elimination of extreme poverty on WHOLE PLANET EARTH. Some small coincidence, thus.

    This is not attack on (fully lawful) private interests of management and shareholders of Defkalion, this is only small note for reflection.

  30. Guru, I sympathize with your post. In case DGT have rhe goods it is extremely important to bring it out in the open as soon as possible. However, greed moves this world.

    1. Well, my intentions was not promote open source, only one stupid thing:

      Told soon to the whole world:

      "We have functional, reliable LENR tech,
      here is 8 seals from 8 Unis and TŰV,
      cost is 1/15 of traditional fossil tech,
      your continuation in building old infrastructure
      is clear madness."

      I respect their rights to their IP, however they
      are conducting extreme losses to whole world with their silent theatre.

    2. Dear Guru, I dare to think that I have a realist vision
      of the degree of difficulty of their development work, so i ask you for a bit more patience, it's a problem of technological empathy. I had been in similar situations
      however at a much, very much lower, level.

      And thank you for the other interesting ideas re world.

  31. Absolutely right.
    We all must litle help them (Defkalion folks).
    And there is another hint:

    After some real announcements with real data tests, validations etc. there is very high probability of some energy commodities will go down. Maybe moderate, maybe more then moderate.
    During 2008 world consummation of oil was lesser of 4% (in words: four percentage lesser) and markets translate this fact to drop oil prices from 143 USD to some 37 USD.

    This time excuse will be more important/relevant.
    And there is next roadblock for Defkalion:

    Because Canadian dollar (CAD) is highly correlated to fluctuations of energy prices, every time when Oil prices go down, this same time Canadian Dollar go down too.

    And this is next excuse for prospective investors etc:

    Defkalion future success is intertwined with their new Canadian
    jurisdiction, i.e. next time investors will whinning:
    Because all world know news about LENR, energy prices go down
    and Canadian dollar go down too, OUR INVESTMENTS in Canadian incarnation of Defkalion will be DEBASED !!!
    Ugh, uughh, this is bad, very bad. You must find new jurisdiction, otherwise our investment will vaporised.

    This is not attack on on some markets laws, this is very small piece of future events: Canadian denomination of investments is not optimal. I cannot this told/write to Defkalion folks, because I am already banned by them.

  32. Thanks Peter for your very interesting information.

    Why has been chosen a H2 pressure of 5 bar ?
    The life time of monoatomin hydrogen is closely related to the pressure and increase with the decrease in absolute pressure.

    Thanks in advance,

    1. Dear Fabrizio, please wait for my next paper ( I am writing it now however it is rather long) or better for the presentation of John Hadjichristos at NI Week today night (here). Then you can understand the pressure in context, monoatomic hydrogen is only the first step, it is then excited to become really active.
      The things are much more interesting and complex and better understood as they seem a la prima vista!

    2. Ok Peter,
      We wait for your next paper before deciding on the final set-up of our experiment..

      We are realizing a reactor where the hydrogen circulates due a compressor, between the core and a heat exchanger gas/water (input at 1000 millibars and output to 500 millibars)
      We hope that circulating hydrogen, we can get a better temperature profile in the reactor and better heat dissipation.

      In the core is present nanometer Ni + copper micrometer (90% - 10%) as a trigger we think using a spark generator at input of the reactor, even if we want to try with a UV lamp ..

      What about using UV as trigger ?


    3. Caro Fabrizio, perhaps I can tell an opinion re your experiment, extra to good wishes.Please write to
      I think just now when I am writing this, John Hadjichristos
      starts his presentation at NI Week Austin and what he says will change the mode of thinking in LENR

  33. Peter,

    At what time is John giving his presentation (and what time zone?

    1. Time zone of Austin, I still don't know the exact timing.
      It seems it was no live video of Celani's demo yesterday, but it will be a video recording. Have seen some 11 videos of yesterday from NI Week but not those of direct LENR interest. If I get this info I will tell at Vortex.

    2. Peter,

      Have you any information regarding the presentation of John from yesterday? I did not see anything on Vortex but since I am new to that medium I would like to double check...

    3. Not yet. I have spoken with him yesterday at phone Austin time ~14.00and he told he will start the presentation soon. DGTG has recorded the speech plus Q/A on video. NI has also to put it on You Tube, however it is some delay- Frank Gordon's and AkitO Takahashi's presentations are still not out. Perhaps later today, now it is night in Austin.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

  34. DGT has posted it on their website