Friday, November 4, 2016


Image result for methods quotationsImage result for methods quotationsImage result for methods quotations

Image result for methods quotationsImage result for methods quotations


In all the realms of life, in all activities you can easily find papers about the "The Greatest Mistake of the Founders". If something does not go well, it is handy o connect it with some kind of original sin of those who have once initiated, pioneered, started, founded that activity. This is a favorite game of the weak epigons who actually are not able to start, launch, found anything but want to share the merits of the originators and create an subliminal "in their place I could do it much better, without that great mistake"
What I say about Fleischmann and Pons is completely different, they were geniuses
but had a terrible bad luck to discover (miscover)  Cold Fusion- now LENR in the worst place possible, where it is weak and instable, underdeveloped and incomplete, drowned in water and poisoned with alien gases, barely reproducible, impredictible and needing major efforts to be made measurable.  BAD LUCK! BAD CHANCE! HOSTILE CIRCUMSTANCES! But no mistake. 
BTW there are people who say that classic LENR WAS perfectly reproducible even if it is not now. This is a contradiction in terms exactly as being a member of the French Academy makes you immortal for life.

It is a rule that bad things happen when means are replacing aims.  Ultra-sensitive calorimetry was developed  because in the cradle of LENR enhancement of the heat effect is not impossible just uncontrollable i.e. worse.

The most over ambitious method used in LENR research is the sacro-sanct Scientific Method. It happened today's quotation at the advid gurteen website was;
"Dialog is life"(Plato). The Scientific Methd is the smartest form of dialog of the scientist with Nature. Just when it happens in the bad place where Mature losses its voice, whispers and stutters and the scientist's audio aid cannot solve his/her deafness problem then the dialog becomes  more complicate but feasible As the heroic author of this quotation has shown it with her life and opus:
The best way out is always through.” – Helen Keller 
The cradle is not a proper  workplace for the problem solver. Dialog can be organized in other places using newly created means of interrogation and communication.


1) At Rossi's JONP - unanswerable smart questions
Hank Mills | Yesterday, 4:13am

Dear Andrea,
1- Have you ever used an isotopically enriched form of LiAlH4 containing a larger than natural percentage of Li7?

2- Do you think Bose Einstein Condensates form anywhere in or on the nickel powder particles in an active E-Cat?

3- Would using elemental Li in a sealed reactor with the only source of hydrogen being LiAlH4 result in “competition” for hydrogen between the nickel and lithium atoms? For example, the lithium bonding with some percentage of the available hydrogen at temperatures below 680C to form lithium hydride (LiH).

4- Would using LiH in combination with LiAlH4 and nickel, instead of elemental lithium, prevent such a “competition” for hydrogen below the breakdown point of lithium hydride?

5- To produce the maximum hydrogen pressure inside of intergranular hydrogen bubbles during thermal shocking, should the hydrogen pressure external of the nickel particles (in the general atmosphere of the reactor) be lowered so as to increase the interior bubble pressure so it will be out of equilibrium with the environment? Basically, so that before rapid heating takes place, the pressure pushing in on the bubbles will already be less than the pressure inside the bubbles pushing outwards.

6-  When simply using heat for triggering, how many re-invigorations can a typical nickel “charge” endure until the tensile strength of the nickel is overcome and the lattice containing these bubbles are damaged to the point excess heat degrades: tens, hundreds, or thousands?

7- In terms of consistent operation within desired parameters, which has proven to be reliable: the old style “hot cat” (Ni-LiAlH4) or the Quark?

8-  For those who try to claim that the Rossi Effect doesn’t work, palladium-deuterium LENR is the only system with convincing evidence, and there is no proof that nickel-hydrogen systems can produce more than single digits watts per gram of fuel, do you roll on the ground laughing due to all the periods of self sustained operation you have seen or do you lower your face into your palm in disbelief of their ridiculous statements?
Thank you for your continued work and labor bringing the Rossi Effect to the commercial marketplace.

2) The image for the following was lost in EGO OUT's yesterday issue:

Miley/Srivastava/Kim/Chen (Universityof Illinois): Low Temperature Plasma Surface Treatment of Catalytic Material

3) Low Energy Nuclear Reactions may have much more potential than is generally realised, suggests The Scientific Alliance.


5) US DOE Researchers Announce Discovery of ‘Loophole’ in Second Law of Thermodynamics

6) Andrea Rossi's Reaction & LENR by Mike Phalen



This thread: 

Here are just a few links to documents which indicate hydrogen bubbles do indeed form in metal -- even metals that are very hard to load with hydrogen! The following is only a tiny selection from a whole heap of papers that are available online!

1) The Hydrogen Effect in Copper
AT & T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ 07974-2070 (USA)
(Received October 20, 1987; in revised form November 30, 1987

2) The role of hydrogen in copper
Rolf Sandström
(Pressure inside bubbles in estimated to be 400 Mpa!) 

3) Hydrogen absorption on copper and implication for long-term safety
Professor Hannu Hänninen
Aalto University School of Engineering
(More documentation about hydrogen bubbles in copper!)

4) Hydrogen depth profile in phosphorus-doped, oxygen-free copper after cathodic charging
Åsa MartinssonEmail authorRolf Sandström
(400Mpa hydrogen bubbles documented again!) 


Another way to produce high pressure gas bubbles

A cavitation based bubble compression process using a mix of Lithium 7 fluoride and Lithium 7 hydride salt using ultrasound might also work. A reaction using a nickel impeller should also be attempted.
Also see

Method of generating energy by acoustically induced cavitation fusion and reactor therefor
US 4333796 A


Two different cavitation fusion reactors (CFR's) are disclosed. Each comprises a chamber containing a liquid (host) metal such as lithium or an alloy thereof. Acoustical horns in the chamber walls operate to vary the ambient pressure in the liquid metal, creating therein small bubbles which are caused to grow to maximum sizes and then collapse violently in two steps. In the first stage the bubble contents remain at the temperature of the host liquid, but in the second stage the increasing speed of collapse causes an adiabatic compression of the bubble contents, and of the thin shell of liquid surrounding the bubble. Application of a positive pressure on the bubble accelerates this adiabatic stage, and causes the bubble to contract to smaller radius, thus increasing maximum temperatures and pressures reached within the bubble. At or near its minimum radius the bubble generates a very intense shock wave, creating high pressures and temperatures in the host liquid. These extremely high pressures and temperatures occur both within the bubbles and in the host liquid, and cause hydrogen isotopes in the bubbles and liquid to undergo thermonuclear reactions. In one type of CFR the thermonuclear reaction is generated by cavitation within the liquid metal itself, and in the other type the reaction takes place primarily within the bubbles. The fusion reactions generate energy that is absorbed as heat by the liquid metal, and this heat is removed from the liquid by conduction through the acoustical horns to an external heat exchanger, without any pumping of the liquid metal

Another way to create a cavitation bubble is to use an electric arc, preferably a very low voltage high amperage arc as used by Mills. Mills has shown that the use of a low voltage high amperage arc eliminates x-ray production such as produced in the defkalion system. Such reactions are produced in current systems


Klimov A., Grigorenko A., Efimov A., Sidorenko M.,Soloviev A., Tolkunov B., Evstigneev N., Ryabkov O. Limited Liability Company ”New Inflow”

Also see

Plasma-Assisted Reaction of Heterogeneous Al-H2O Mixture in High-Speed Swirl Flow
Klimov A., Bityurin V., Grigorenko A., Efimov A.V., Kutuzov D.S., Tolkunov B.N., Tsymbal A.A., Polyakov L.B.
Joint Institute of High Temperature RAS Izhorskaya 13/19, Moscow, 127415, Russia

Notice that the Plasma-Assisted Reaction uses a voltage of between 200 and 800 and therefore produces a huge amount of x-rays, something that Mills in using a low voltage arc does not generate.


Scientists set traps for atoms with single-particle precision
Technique may enable large-scale atom arrays for quantum computing

Date:November 3, 2016
Source:Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Researchers report a new method to use lasers as optical "tweezers" to pick individual atoms out from a cloud and hold them in place. As the atoms are "trapped," the scientists use a camera to create images of the atoms and their locations. Based on these images, they then manipulate the angle of the laser beams, to move individual atoms into any number of different configurations.
also at- 
as recommended by Sam North


  1. Hank Mills
    November 4, 2016 at 3:13 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    Do you expect to one day — even if years from now — write a paper about the issues I asked about in regards to the operation of the E-Cat?

    Even if it is years from now, I think the world needs a written record of your complete, unabridged knowledge of this topic. Perhaps with more vigor than any other individual in the entire history of the LENR community, you’ve performed tireless testing of your systems to gain first hand understanding of the processes and mechanisms involved. No one has built and tested a tenth or even a hundredth of the reactors you have or performed a fraction of the experiments. And, certainly, no one has sat inside of a plant with hundreds of reactor cores operating for an entire year. You’re knowledge and understanding of what’s practically required to induce these reactions is second to none. This knowledge came at significant cost to you: the sacrifice of personal savings, homes, businesses, your health for a period of time (the temporary weight loss), and many years of your life that can never be magically returned.

    No one else has laid more on the alter of LENR than you have. Obviously, the return has been enormous — that’s plain to see with the long string of various reactors (all capable of self sustaining for hours or longer) that you have built ranging from low temperature, to high temperature, to the ultra high temperature Quark.

    The nitty gritty details of fuel preparation, temperature cycling, pressure variation, thermal shocking, and electromagnetic stimulation that you have collected are a treasure rivaling the engineering achievements of Nikola Tesla.

    I sincerely hope you have everything documented in extreme detail, holding nothing back. Even if such a document cannot be released for years, it needs to be ready for review when the situation allows.

    Thank you for all the work you do.

    Hank Mills

    Andrea Rossi
    November 4, 2016 at 11:39 AM
    Hank Mills:
    Thank you for your insight.
    When the QuarkX will be massively diffused the information you cite will be available.
    Warm Regards

  2. Well, for some reason, despite Pons and Fleischmann's "miscovery" of cold fusion, the researchers at SPAWAR were able to replicate it, and improve on it. Perhaps you should spend less time bitching about P&F and more time reading their research papers.

    The problems of LENR had zero to do with "miscovery" and everything to do with dirty science politics initiated and continued by the supposed "scientists" of hot fusion who were more worried about competition than they were about actually following the accepted rules and mores of scientific impartiality.

    Note that NASA initiated and replicated a gas phase Pd/D2 system which had none of the disadvantages of the electrolytic approach, yet that was also ignored for precisely the same reason as the P&F work. How does your "miscovery" theory accommodate that fact??

  3. Anonymous - good comment, and I'd add in the work from Mitsubishi and Toyota diffusing D through a Pd/CaO sandwich, with maybe some dirty tricks trying to disparage that too.

    Peter - nice quotes from Pirsig and Heisenberg. When Nature talks you need to listen with as few preconceptions as possible. When other people tell you what they heard, though, you also need to take into account all available data. Since so far neither Rossi nor anyone else has come up with a reasonable explanation of how around 980kW of steam heat energy disappeared without leaving a trail of evidence, I remain unconvinced that the heat was there. I find Brillouin's claimed 10W or so far more believable.

    Luckily there are a fair number of researchers who are exploring different methods than Rossi says he's using. To me this seems logical, given the uncertainty that anything Rossi says is true, and I hope someone does find a reliable method to get cheap power in the next few years. It may be Ni/H, but could be one of the hot fusion methods or something unexpected.

    1. Simon:"... Since so far neither Rossi nor anyone else has come up with a reasonable explanation of how around 980kW of steam heat energy disappeared without leaving a trail of evidence, I remain unconvinced that the heat was there..."

      From my point of wiew one possibility is using E-Cat_energy+N2+H20 to create amoniak. It can absorb a lot of energy. By means of relativ small pipe diameter is possible to lead it to nearest save place and daily or weekly take it away. Just electronic opinion not chemist.

    2. E_man - that's not a reaction I was aware of, being also more electronics-oriented. What are the conditions needed - temperatures, pressures etc.? I would assume that water would come in from the pipe and N2 from the air, so no material deliveries would be seen. Could this run unattended (since no employees seen) and would the amount of product be worth $30K/month? Since NH3 is very poisonous, I would expect that it would not be allowed to run through a pipe to elsewhere, but would be transferred to a tanker for delivery. As far as I can tell no such collections of product were seen.

      If I remember my school chemistry correctly, the Haber process runs at around 400°C or more and 150bar or more in pressure. The temperature supplied by Rossi would not be enough for that standard process. What you are proposing is thus probably a different process.

      This process has to run automatically (limited number of people there and obviously unattended for hours at a time) and the material inflow and finished products need to be easily hidden. It's a reasonable bet that with that much money involved that IH at least watched the outside of the building and saw what went in and went out.

      With a power-bill of $30k/month, it's hard to see what bulk manufacture would be commercially viable (and the deliveries would be obvious) so the only other option is high-value high-tech materials such as nanomaterials where a bagful could be worth that much - but then that would leave no sink for all that heat that wouldn't leave an evidence trail.

      I thus still can't see a way that around 98% of the heat input (at 100°C or so) could just disappear. Don't forget that this is not some esoteric process we're talking about here, it's steam heat and we've been experienced in dealing with that for centuries.

      Peter says he's sure that Rossi will explain where the heat went, but don't forget that Peter is a gifted industrial chemist himself and so far he hasn't given any reasonable speculation himself. Other explanations I've seen are things like a fan-assisted chimney or just open the transit doors, but those would have produced a plume of heat visible to an IR camera - and an IR camera was used (by IH) to look for that. Putting the heat down the drains would use around the same water as 5500 local average houses, which would show on the water-bill and also on the IR survey of the area.

      Where the heat went is still an unanswered question, or to be more precise the answers proposed are so far unsatisfactory.

    3. Simon: "...If I remember my school chemistry correctly, the Haber process runs at around 400°C or more and 150bar or more in pressure. The temperature supplied by Rossi would not be enough for that standard process. What you are proposing is thus probably a different process. ..."
      I'm not skill to discuss it. But this is more then hundred years old technology. I think there are much better (hidden) technologies at present time. Just my opinion.

    4. E-man - with an input temperature of around 375K and an output temperature of around 335K, it's somewhat difficult to speculate on any process absorbing 98% of the heat energy.

      If we nevertheless say that this is what must have happened, then on an economic argument for J.M.Products we'd expect that whatever was made in the locked room must be worth more than the power bill of around $30k/month. That in turn implies that raw materials should have been delivered and finished materials would have been shipped out, and also that J.M.Products will have a customer for whatever it was was made. The annual accounts for J.M.Products should thus show a sufficient volume of money moving through, also buying materials and selling product to customers. It may be a while before this evidence surfaces, but my prediction is that the company has no employees and that the money in was the same as the money used to pay the electricity bill. There will be no raw material purchases or finished material sales, and J.M.Products is simply a shell company that doesn't actually do anything.

      Though we can discuss unknown physical/chemical processes without coming to an agreement, the financial side of things can provide clear evidence that whatever heat J.M.Products bought did not result in any real business.

      The starting-point for this test was that Rossi had a real customer who could use the heat for an industrial process and would thus prove that the heat existed. If instead we see that J.M.Products was set up by Rossi's lawyer, didn't have any employees, didn't buy any raw materials and didn't sell any products, then there is also no proof that the heat existed, except so far as the meter-readings were correctly measured and honestly recorded. If you personally had over $100M resting on those measurements, and your own tests of the duplicate reactors had been total failures with no excess heat measurable, would you pay up the money? Bear in mind that a slight misreading of the temperature by a degree or a fraction of a bar above atmospheric pressure can make a difference by a factor of about 25 in the actual energy calculation.
      Personally, I'd ask for a bit more evidence of the magnitude of the heat and of where it went.

    5. Sorry Simon. I discussed only to your :"... Since so far neither Rossi nor anyone else has come up with a reasonable explanation of how around 980kW of steam heat energy disappeared without leaving a trail of evidence, I remain unconvinced that the heat was there..."

    6. E_man - no problems. Though I'd like to see Rossi succeed, and I still think that he's seen some success, I've set out the logical reasons why the current story doesn't hold together and thus why I don't see Rossi's published methods as a way forward.

      Of course I could be wrong in my doubts about Rossi, but by stating the available data clearly that does give people the opportunity to agree/disagree on specific points. Some people just believe, but I like evidence that corroborates the assertions. Show me a valid way that the heat could have been dissipated without being seen and I'll accept that, but if people just say "it will be explained later" then that is inadequate.

    7. Agree.
      IH had excellent chance to confirm or to disprove E-Cat. Just to measure second side of heat exchanger by flowmeter and thermometer keeping temperature below 100°C.
      I do not believe IH!

    8. E_man - it seems to me that they had no such opportunity at Doral, but that they did test their copies of the reactors (presumably the same as they supplied to Rossi) and found no excess heat.

      Our opinions on this are likely to be coloured by whether we think IH really wanted to have something working (which seems to me to be the case) or whether we think they were out to steal the technology and not pay for it.

      For me, looking at the sum of the evidence leads me to think that Rossi's published data is wrong. On the other hand, the sum of evidence from elsewhere leads me to Pd/D LENR being confirmed (if somewhat unreliable) and Ni/H LENR looking pretty hopeful. I hope that Brillouin can prove it, but other methods may turn out to be better.