THIS IS A SPECIAL ISSUE OF EGO OUT BASED ON MY CONTINUING DISCUSSIONS WITH MICHEL VANDERBERGHE, CEO OF THE LENR CITIES ORGANIZATION.
I still believe in the European civilization, culture..and future, so it is my desire to witness an important role of the Old Continent in the very young Energy Revolution too. In this direction, the existence, activity and fast development and progress of LENR Cities, lead by Michel Vanderberghe is a great asset. They will play a decisive role in EURO-LENR.
I have asked Michel- what we what we might do about LENR in Europe. How to compete with Rossi?
I still believe in the European civilization, culture..and future, so it is my desire to witness an important role of the Old Continent in the very young Energy Revolution too. In this direction, the existence, activity and fast development and progress of LENR Cities, lead by Michel Vanderberghe is a great asset. They will play a decisive role in EURO-LENR.
I have asked Michel- what we what we might do about LENR in Europe. How to compete with Rossi?
Michel: That's just my two cents. Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Then let's imagine such scenario… Investors have put 62M$ on the Rossi Project. This makes sense only for an industrial project. So, there's an industrial project and so, technology works…
Today, the issue is not to get a scientific proof but to get a market proof, and “somebody is manufacturing a product” will be a perfect market proof. At this time, the debate will be over and we know that flooding the addressable market may be the strategy of the first entrant...
Peter: and how will this evolve naturally in today's industrial environment?:
Michel: This proof should unleash large investments in research and it is just obvious that the technology (technologies) would evolve quickly. As one has the “Moore law” in electronics, I bet that one should have a LENR law such as "effective power density will double every X months". Engineers will do their job and we should be able to package this energy source to make energetically autonomous, let’s say everything in less than 15 years, if everything goes well,LENR will trigger innovation in all sectors… Energy is everywhere… Today, Enterprises in the Energy sector are large enterprises. In some years, LENR Industry for the energy sector will manufacture LENR batteries, and your supermarket will be your Energy provider… In the meantime, it makes sense think that LENR technology should have to be tailored to many applications in many different sectors.
Peter: dear Michel, if I remember well, in the jargon of your organization (as well as in reality, perhaps) "N" from LENR means Nanoscale too, so it will be a direct connection of LENR with the nano-industries, in full development?
Michel: I am not even sure that the manufacturing of nanostructured materials will be an industry as the semiconductor industry but done using 3D printers... as more and more nano-materials have applications in many sectors… and LENR is not only about Energy…
More specifics: Investments in the energy sector only amount to tens of billions. Main Issue is not about the technology but about the market… The question is about these investments. A significant share of the economy depend on these investments… The good news is that, only some tens of millions are required for LENR for now…
When someone is asking how I will make money at LENR-Cities…with large investments in R&D, in less than 18 months of research, I think, enough will be known to trigger some first massive industrial investment. Obviously, some industrialists will invest early. Others will say that the market will be efficient but they forget the main factor: This will not be the same market… By adding that the second major wave of disruptive Digital technologies is coming to reinforce the transition toward decentralized organizations, they should have guessed that things will not happen as usual…
Peter: Let's put our European state of affairs re LENR in a worldwide context, please:
Michel: In Asia, we can count on Japan, China and India to lead the game. Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand will join the game… In Americas, it is just obvious because they are able to rush on any mine of gold twice faster than other countries... We have talked with people in Brazil, Chili three years ago already… In the Middle East, Israel and Saudi Arabia will lead… What will happen in Russia? No idea but their Physicists are brilliant…
I know that there are several teams in Europe able to design reactors. What they are doing today is limited by the resources they have and not by what they can do… and I have no doubt that industrialists and startups in Europe will develop technologies. Then, I’m not worried; Europe will play its role. Some large players will need time to able to cope with this transition. But if they try to reduce the pace of this transition, they will impact all the other sectors. This is a collective game…
For me, there’s a simple way to characterize what the problem is and consequently to begin to understand what might be the solution? The pace for the transition for all sectors will be essential. Faster this transition will be done, more will be reduced the cost of its side effects, including risks....more the development of the technology and its applications will be fast thanks to more investments.
Second characteristic is the ratio Raw Materials/W of the LENR and the recycling ratio of these raw materials. Lower it is it the best it is. Thanks to green manufacturing, we can expect 100%
It is important to remind that energy is not the only application of LENR. BTW, LENR for me is Low Energy Nanoscale Reaction, a way to neutralize an unproductive debate...
Peter: Why LENR Cities and what is its strategy?
Michel: Why LENR-Cities ? We need a way to make the adoption of LENR more attractive/less painful than any other option. LENR must not be a reason to compete between challengers and incubents but a reason to cooperate: It is not a naive affirmation but a requirement in order to avoid a bloody transition. We are promoting and developing a fully decentralized organization (LENRG) which aims to enable each player willing to solve an issue by using LENR, to develop its own business. LENRG is doing LENR projects, because our objective is also to solve issues by using LENR and, LENR-Cities, a member of this organization, is developing, testing and adapting this organization.
What: Our objective is : Platform to enable and achieve the funding, the development and (pre) industrialization of LENR
How : Through a cooperative ecosystem : Companies willing to be part of the platform
Two metrics to characterize the efficiency of this platform as discussed above. For now, the first one only.
A first Project is to develop in the coming months a first disruptive technology, a Nuclear Waste Remediation technology, that is to say a transmutation technology and the stake is to develop a scalable solution. We are also looking for funding to implement our PhD program project at full scale as part of this project.
Peter: what do you think about the Event of today, MFMP's achievement:
Michel: Excess heat is one phenomenon of LENRs. Proof of excess heat is now replicable. MFMP has published initial information about how to replicate and details are coming with their cookbook.
Now, scientists and engineers are going to explore how to master the COP and energy density with LENR+
Thank you, Michel. I hope our discussions will continue...
At this point, LENR Energy appears to be either based on Rossi, which is high temperature and relatively expensive chemicals, or on technology based on Deuterium. and. presumably, Palladium.
ReplyDeleteThis is technology using very expensive. and rare, materials. While there may be good energy output in comparison to energy input, this kind of technology bears some resemblance to the hot fusion reactors where there are so many other problems that need to be addressed other than the energy out vs energy in situation.
There is indication that NI62 plus Molecular Hydrogen, and very possibly Molecular Hydrogen with vrtysom isotopes of even less expensive elements, could be feasible bases for technology.
This is based on assuming that Rossi is correct in finding Ni62 a the "Ash," and a logical analysis of why this could be and produce Helium 4.
It is my opinion that this chemistry should be carefully examined before large amounts of money are spent on following either Rossi's current approach or the approaches needing Deuterium.
"before large amounts of money are spent"
Deletepeanuts compared to ITER.
OK, Probably peanuts compared to many projects. Mm probably conditioned by my own budget sher tem bucks sometimes seems like a lot of money....
DeleteThe transmutation of nuclear waste to benign elements while providing high process steam to the turbines, on site at nuclear power plants worldwide, will accomplish three important things: eliminate nuclear waste, slow or end the mining and refining of nuclear fuel, and most importantly it will keep the nuclear power industry solvent with monies for eventual decommissioning. Mitigating disruption through collaboration.
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing this further forward, if I can help let me know.
The only think tank report I've found mentioning LENR is from 2011, "Building the Bridge to an Energy Secure Future: Energy Policies for the 21st Century" out of Austin Texas; Lawrence Forsley, of JWK, GEC and the GeNie Reactor (transmutes nuclear waste) is in the same university. They might have resources to collaborate with.
Energy density of LENR equates to LENR economic density as well. The nearly unimaginable savings go beyond that, creating an economic imperative as never seen before. An example is the monies being spent by think tanks, non-profits, universities, nations, international organizations and more, on programs that address carbon energy security, use and pollution. Every such organization will assess the value of these programs in light of LENR energy and redirect resources accordingly. Imagine those monies, and many more, flooding into LENR transition, saving monies that would otherwise be wasted.
LENR transition creates the ultimate reasons for a fully collaborative approach, an environmental imperative and an economic imperative.
Thank you for a great interview and fantastic works.
Great comment Greg. Agree, in-situ transmutation for fission power plants solves many problems AND provides new revenue for decommissioning. Thereafter such plants could transmute the ~66k tons of nuke waste DOE has yet to find a place to store.
DeleteThey have 'jumped the gun'. There is no proof of useful excess heat.
ReplyDeleteThe gammas do not equate with any usefulenergy output.
The effect is intersting but it is far from understanding anddevelopment.
Rossi has still never showed anything unambiguous and he never will.
There has always been a place for cuckoos in business world, even demand. But it is a very short step from foolishness to fraud, so the cuckoos should fly carefully.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the interview Peter.
ReplyDeleteIt gives the BIG picture of LENR.
Sam